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Crag & Route Beta

Area	Location	Sub Location	Crag	Links
VIC Arapiles	The Organ Pipes	(General)	(General)	[ Arapiles Guide \| Arapiles Images ]

Author

Loose anchors on Conifer Crack

kieranl

2-Jun-2017
12:41:32 PM

I have few issues with them:

First are they necessary? Very subjective. Removing the adventure of descending the Organ Pipes Gully is a negative in my book. I'm a great supporter of rap anchors for removing erosion pressure on gully descents but I think the Organ Pipes Gully isn't a great erosion problem.

Second : Increased congestion at the rap anchors below.

Third: Potential increased rockfall from people abseiling into the gully. This is the big one for me now that I see where they are. I'll try to observe what happens when parties use this descent. If, as I suspect, this causes rockfall down the gully then they probably need to go.


Grinder

2-Jun-2017
2:05:31 PM

Agree with you on those points Kieran.

I wonder how many people you will be able to watch doing the rap though. I really can't picture most climbers of Conifer Crack choosing to approach that set-up and bring a less experienced partner or party with them, then doing two raps, instead of walking off.

I'm going to guess that an individual has put the set-up in because they do the route often with beginners or clients. Saves them dealing with their inexperienced crew getting down the back way and gives them an abseil as well to supplement their adventure. Just a guess.

gfdonc

2-Jun-2017
2:57:46 PM

On 2/06/2017 One Day Hero wrote:
>The level of comprehension of how bolts work in the general climbing population
>is a bit disturbing.
I trust this was a general comment and not directed at the OP.

> Pretty odd that this anchor was originally reported
>as glue-in.
As clearly stated originally I was observing from a distance. I was too far away to be able to see if it was an expansion or glue in. In my experience when a bolt is 'that' loose (rather than just spinning) it's usually due to glue failure.

> I am extremely skeptical that anyone pulled that trubolt out
>with their fingers and then replaced it.
I could discern he was able to pull the bolt outwards (and it was loose) but didn't see it come out of the hole.


The good Dr

2-Jun-2017
4:13:16 PM

>
>You sure it wasn't just the hanger moving in and out along the exposed
>thread? Once a trubolt is sliding in the hole, there is no way to tighten
>it up (even if the nut wasn't galled), and the bolt is fuched.

Actually, there is a way, but those without the knowledge should not comment on things they know nothing about!


The good Dr

2-Jun-2017
4:40:39 PM

On 2/06/2017 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 2/06/2017 The good Dr wrote:
>>Actually, there is a way, but those without the knowledge should not
>comment
>>on things they know nothing about!
>
>Well how about you enlighten us? I reckon a $10 trubolt with a galled
>nut and the sleeve sliding in the hole probably belongs in the bin, but
>am interested in your solution.

Given the pic I reckon it is probably a galled nut. The solution is to hammer in a U shaped shim(s) between the washer and the bolt plate that forces the cone to locate correctly. These can be made from oversized washers with a notch cut out. These will also have the ability to have the ends turned up so it cannot fall out. Problem solved.

The reality is that removal and replacement is the best solution.

widewetandslippery

2-Jun-2017
4:42:39 PM

Truebpolts have a very limited tolerance for hole diameter. Getting a a worked hole,easy todo on rope, or to tight hole from been a tight arse can lead To many forms of failure. I prefer dynabolts if mechanical anchors are to be used and would rather a carrot than a truebolt.


ajfclark

3-Jun-2017
8:13:08 AM

On 2/06/2017 Grinder wrote:
>I'm going to guess that an individual has put the set-up in because they do the route often with beginners or clients. Saves them dealing with their inexperienced crew getting down the back way and gives them an abseil as well to supplement their adventure. Just a guess.

I guide. I would never use those bolts with clients. They are not located in a place that facilitates that kind of activity. They are located around the arete from a ledge. It'd be hard for the client to get started on that station, hard to see you clients on the way down, they end up on a ledge unsecured, etc

The back way is awesome with clients and way more fun as an adventure. If I really wanted to abseil them somewhere after doing conifer, I'd head back up onto the ledge above D Major and rap them behind Piccolo.

The only use I can see is if maybe you were using something finishing up the 2nd pitch of Conifer Crack as a warm up for something else on Red Wall?

kieranl

5-Jun-2017
5:40:09 PM

Turns out the nut wasn't properly galled. It had stopped at some thread damage but unscrewed easily. It appears that because of the thread damage the bolt hadn't been properly tightened hence it was slightly loose. The bigger risk though was from the nut which didn't seem secure. Despite having come prepared with shovels and rakes and implements of destruction it was quite trivial. I removed hangers and chain from both bolts and left the studs for now. That will give a bit of space for a bit of a chat about whether these anchors have a future.

There are 48 messages in this topic.