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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
VIC Southwest Werribee Gorge (General) (General) [ Werribee Guide | Images ] 

Author
Unsafe bolts at the Falcons lookout
giulia.savorgnan
4-Oct-2015
11:31:05 PM
Hi all, on Friday we were at the Falcons Lookout. We found two loose nuts on Tina the ballerina, we could easily roll them and screw them out with two fingers (one nut was half way unscrewed), so we removed nuts and bolt plates to prevent accidents. I've got them with me. Just need that someone comes and puts them back tight, or I'm happy to go myself and do it if you can kindly advice on the best way to do it. They are the 3rd and 4th bolts, you can clearly see them missing from the bottom. There's a carabiner on the second bolt, just in case someone doesn't notice them missing and needs to lower. The last bolt on Barbara had the same problem, and the 5th on Redex as well, but we left them in place, of course.
jdb
5-Oct-2015
4:12:15 PM
On 4/10/2015 giulia.savorgnan wrote:."We found two loose nuts on Tina the Ballerina"

Perhaps the climb should now be known as 'Tim the Dancer'

IdratherbeclimbingM9
6-Oct-2015
11:29:12 AM
Cross link to a similar Chockstone thread.
TX3PWR
6-Oct-2015
7:16:00 PM
Thanks for looking out for your fellow climbers.

I was hoping to climb that route this weekend. :) Will you be replacing them by then?
Dave_S
6-Oct-2015
11:29:58 PM
Plans have been made to replace then Saturday afternoon.
Dave_S
15-Oct-2015
11:21:35 PM
And we did indeed replace them. Here's a report on that.

A huge number of bolts were loose to the point where the hanger could freely rotate. This is extremely concerning, as loading the bolts when they are loose will cause damage, as you can clearly see in many of the images linked below. A tight bolt keeps the hanger clamped tight against the rock, such that when loaded, the load is taken up by friction between these surfaces, and the hanger does not actually pull down on the bolt. However, when the bolt is loose, there is no friction between the hanger and the rock, and instead the hanger pulls down onto the bolt, crushing threads and/or cutting into it. This is especially problematic with bolts that have an external nut, rather than a bolt head. (The bolt headed ones like the Rawl 5-piece have an unthreaded body section immediately below the head, so there's more material directly under the hanger, and the hanger is not in contact with threads.)

All 10mm bolts were tightened to 35Nm and 12mm bolts (just the anchors above the Holiday Sidewinder arete) to 50Nm, as per Ramset's recommendations, using a poor man's torque wrench. (Which is equally usable by tightarse men, poor women, and tightarse women.) Bolts were tightened on the following climbs.


Barbara Streisand:

1: Tightened, I think with Loctite, but not certain.
2: Tightened, I think with Loctite, but not certain.
3: Loose. Bolt under hanger was rusted and worn down due to loading while loose. Cleaned, applied Loctite and tightened. (Image)
4: Loose. Bolt under hanger was rusted and worn down due to loading while loose. Cleaned, applied Loctite and tightened. (Image)
5: Loose. Bolt under hanger was rusted and worn down due to loading while loose. Cleaned, applied Loctite and tightened. (Image)


Tina the Ballarina:

1: Tightened, I think with Loctite, but not certain.
2: Tightened, I think with Loctite, but not certain.
3: Loose but undamaged. Cleaned, applied Loctite and tightened. (Image)
4: Loose. Bolt under hanger was rusted and worn down due to loading while loose. Cleaned, applied Loctite and tightened. (Image)
5: Loose. Heavily rusted non-SS washer. Could not fully remove nut as it jammed after loosening it a few turns and I was concerned about damaging the bolt. Tightened without Loctite. (Image)
6: Already tight. (I think.) Did not modify.


Snatch and Grab:

1: Tightened, I think with Loctite, but not certain.
2: Tightened, I think with Loctite, but not certain.
3: Loose with rusty non-SS washer, and I think this one I wasn't able to tighten as its nut was too small for my socket.
4: Loose but undamaged. Cleaned, applied Loctite and tightened. (Image)


Redex:

All bolts except 4 and 7 tightened with Loctite. Bolts 4 (Image) and 7 (Image) were 5-piece bolts (hex head rather than nut) which my smallest socket was too large for. The anchor bolts to the right of the block at the top, above Holiday Sidewinder, were also tightened with Loctite.


There's very likely still a lot of loose bolts out there, so be careful, and carry a spanner!
Dave_S
15-Oct-2015
11:49:51 PM
Some more information on the "poor man's torque wrench", which may be useful: Torque in Newton-meters (Nm) is calculated as a force multiplied by a distance. Appropriate force for a given torque can be found by dividing the torque by the distance. The force is how hard you are pulling on the spanner, and the distance is the perpendicular distance from the bolt to the point of the spanner that you're pulling on. Perpendicular means the shortest distance between the bolt and the line along which the force is applied. (See image below.) Multiply weight in Kg by 10 to get an approximate value for the force in Newtons that you are applying.

So if you were holding a spanner 20cm from the nut, and were aiming for a torque of 35Nm, then you'd want to apply a force equal to 35Nm/0.2m = 175N. Divide by 10 to convert N to Kg, and that tells you that you should be pulling on the spanner (perpendicularly) with the amount of force that would be needed to lift 17.5Kg.



Alternatively, Aldi currently seem to have torque wrenches in the 28-210Nm range on sale for $25.

There are 7 messages in this topic.

 

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