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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 24
Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
All NSW (General) (General) (General)  

Author
Death Flakes at the Point
sleake
27-Oct-2014
12:41:19 PM
Hi all.

Neils topic has prompted me into starting this one on Point Perpendicular.

Almost every time I get on an 'obscure' and often not so obscure route at the point there seem to be some real death flakes - loose and big blocks just waiting to go.

Even popular routes have delivered some big blocks - Man Overboard, Tenere (sorry - I pulled out the lower block before the crux by just lifting it while on second- the top jug block is still solid), Dracophillium corner (one of the fridges from the top!!!!) have all gone on me or one in my group.

Now there are plenty left to go. I was on Metzeluna/Motzellema/whaterver it is last weekend - far south corner of windjammer and there is a big wobbly fin doiwn low - first third - then the flake in the top crack seems even looser and looser each time I climb this route. Red Riding hood has some big detached flakes on the traverse, Banksia corner is more or less a death trap at the top if you are too fat or strong plus heaps more - there is a big block on tenere on the 'pod' below the upper crack - just sitting there.

What to do with these routes? If it isnt an important hold, will I get lynched if I rap in with a crowbar and trundle them?

If it is a hold, will I get lynched if I pack the sucker with glue and hope for the best?

Should I and everyone else just wear a helmet and get on with it - guess it has worked for the past decades.

I have no issue with dirty or breaking holds - thats life at the point - but these things can easily kill someone - and Im happy to put in the effort to tidy them up - if that is the 'best' course of action.

Please put in your two bobs worth.

Cheers, Steve
Dr Nick
27-Oct-2014
12:54:22 PM
Another option that I know Mikl and I have both used is to get a long drill bit and put a metal rod through the flake and the rock behind as reinforcing. Obviously you're going to have to make a judgement as to whether that's going to be effective in any particular case.

My preferred option if it's not going to be too much of a scar or hazard is to get rid of loose stuff. A small prybar so you can pull something out without being in the line of fire is OK. A car jack is probably an admission that something isn't really that loose.
grangrump
27-Oct-2014
1:23:07 PM
In the original trundling, I mean cleaning, we took some care to ensure there were no divers below, which is an issue for some of the cliffs there. These days sea kayakers are also about.

nmonteith
27-Oct-2014
1:34:25 PM
I'm generally for trundling - but sometimes a 'loose' hold is really keyed in solidly, and could be holding in a lot of smaller looser stuff. I guess if you can pull it out with your hands then get rid of it, but going full tilt with a crowbar is perhaps an overkill.

Snacks
27-Oct-2014
1:54:18 PM
On 27/10/2014 Dr Nick wrote:
>Another option that I know Mikl and I have both used is to get a long drill
>bit and put a metal rod through the flake and the rock behind as reinforcing.
>Obviously you're going to have to make a judgement as to whether that's
>going to be effective in any particular case.
>
>My preferred option if it's not going to be too much of a scar or hazard
>is to get rid of loose stuff. A small prybar so you can pull something
>out without being in the line of fire is OK. A car jack is probably an
>admission that something isn't really that loose.
>

I like Neil's idea and actually use an old drill bit as the metal rod...

takes advantage of the basic principle behind the whole helifix product range without going to the proprietary expense.
ropedonkey
27-Oct-2014
4:23:27 PM
Hey Steve do you reckon the top of Banksia corner will still climb the same if that flake goes?
If you want a scary one do Piper corner I have no idea what holds some of those blocks on.!
Wendy
28-Oct-2014
6:24:51 AM
You'd almost have to crow bar off the whole cliff to safe up the Pt. I think it just needs to be accepted as part of climbing there. Wear a bloody helmet. Belay off to the side of the line of fire. Be ready to dodge. Warn your belayer when you are at something particularly bodgy.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
28-Oct-2014
9:23:55 AM
On 28/10/2014 Wendy wrote:
>You'd almost have to crow bar off the whole cliff to safe up the Pt. I
>think it just needs to be accepted as part of climbing there. Wear a bloody
>helmet. Belay off to the side of the line of fire. Be ready to dodge. Warn
>your belayer when you are at something particularly bodgy.

+1

Then again if you really want death choss you could always adventure* climb instead at-

(*Adventure is not reckless endeavour, it is often just a word used to disguise unplanned surprises, and being well prepared in tactics/logistics plus physically and mentally, often avoids them).
sleake
28-Oct-2014
10:20:53 AM
Perhap Banksia corner could be a good candidade for some DIY geotech work! Been ages since ive been on it, just remember the big hollow door at the top.

Pipers was one of my first leads years ago - dont think I climbed for the rest of the weekend after it......

Wendy - yes the rock isnt Arraps, and I'm not talking about taking off anything that might never go/would be too small to really be a concern.

But the reality is that there are a number of - clearly widely recognised - time bombs that have gone and will continue to go, and may one day squish an unfortunate belayer. A helmet wont do anything. Lashing the belayer might, but nobody will bother, considering that they are at a popular crag on a route that may very well have stars, or the very least a lot of prior ascents.

M9 - Its is more or less a single pitch crag. Im not talking about trundling at the bungles. Dangerous blocks dont belong on a single pitch crag.

So what is the solution - try and avoid them? Like i said - Im not stranger to crap rock, but have had probably half a dozen situations where luck/some awareness/good descisions - but mainly luck - have avoided huge injury to myself or a friend.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
28-Oct-2014
11:12:08 AM
On 28/10/2014 sleake wrote:
>M9 - Its is more or less a single pitch crag. Im not talking about trundling
>at the bungles. Dangerous blocks dont belong on a single pitch crag.
>
Why not?
It is a sea cliff after all, and weathering is a continuous event.
It is also a natural location and not a gym...

>So what is the solution - try and avoid them? Like i said - Im not stranger
>to crap rock, but have had probably half a dozen situations where luck/some
>awareness/good descisions - but mainly luck - have avoided huge injury
>to myself or a friend.
>
I am pleased for you, though dealing with (or succumbing too), objective dangers is a part of the outdoor climbing game, especially at the more adventurous locations like Point Perpendicular.

I am not against trundling per se, especially when safety is a clearly identified immediate issue, however I am against embarking on the slippery slope of 'safetyising' ad-infinitum.

nmonteith
28-Oct-2014
11:25:53 AM
Is NOT trundling large blocks just contriving adventure and danger?

IdratherbeclimbingM9
28-Oct-2014
11:29:54 AM
On 28/10/2014 nmonteith wrote:
>Is NOT trundling large blocks just contriving adventure and danger?

No, at least not for me, as I'd sooner get my contrivance by delicately climbing over the choss knowing it is a valid/legitimate part of the route!
An acquired skill (taste?) if you will.

shortman
28-Oct-2014
11:43:39 AM
On 28/10/2014 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 28/10/2014 nmonteith wrote:
>>Is NOT trundling large blocks just contriving adventure and danger?
>
>No, at least not for me, as I'd sooner get my contrivance by delicately
>climbing over the choss knowing it is a valid/legitimate part of the route!
>An acquired skill (taste?) if you will.

Totally down with this M9, yet agree with Neil and co. about getting rid of death blocks. It's a hard one.

nmonteith
28-Oct-2014
12:46:46 PM

IdratherbeclimbingM9
28-Oct-2014
1:06:02 PM
On 28/10/2014 nmonteith wrote:
>'The biggest trundle ever'

That vid IS an example of contriving adventure and danger.
~> In my opinion a pointless exercise, as that boulder was going nowhere without the significant effort involved to shift it.

Duang Daunk
28-Oct-2014
1:11:15 PM
C'mon M9 bro.
Surely you wouldn't begrudge Nowra locals being allowed to take holidays to da Point after being inspired by a vid like that?
Just tell em that climbers have stashed their dope behind flakes and blocks on da cliffs, and it will be cleaned up in no time.
Wendy
28-Oct-2014
4:46:12 PM
I did Tenere and Man Overboard (amongst other things) last year, and I don't remember anything that was either normal choss coming off to be expected at the crag, or obvious and thus to be avoided. I'm not exactly renowned for my boldness, but I thought they were only really loose and hazardous if you expected them to be otherwise and climbed accordingly. Sure, people could get hurt, but people also need to take responsibility for their own judgement when climbing. It's when something that looks completely solid comes off that is more problematic, because you wouldn't be climbing with the possibility in mind.

Superstu
29-Oct-2014
8:55:19 AM
How about a big "X" marked in chalk on dodgy blocks, like the seppos do.

nmonteith
29-Oct-2014
9:52:14 AM
On 29/10/2014 Superstu wrote:
>How about a big "X" marked in chalk on dodgy blocks, like the seppos do.

Would wash off almost immediately on those vertical cliffs with high wind. Perhaps use liquid paper instead? haha.
sleake
29-Oct-2014
1:33:23 PM
On 28/10/2014 Wendy wrote:
>I did Tenere and Man Overboard (amongst other things) last year, and I
>don't remember anything that was either normal choss coming off to be expected
>at the crag, or obvious and thus to be avoided. I'm not exactly renowned
>for my boldness, but I thought they were only really loose and hazardous
>if you expected them to be otherwise and climbed accordingly. Sure, people
>could get hurt, but people also need to take responsibility for their own
>judgement when climbing. It's when something that looks completely solid
>comes off that is more problematic, because you wouldn't be climbing with
>the possibility in mind.

I would agree that they are pretty clean now - though there is a block on tenere that ill check out next time - but I have yarded on it and it feld solidish - but I think it is just sitting there, rather than being keyed in - perhaps a candidate for some glue?

BUT I pulled a big - probably besa-block size chunk - out of tenere about a year ago - it was just after all the heavy rain which closed the road - and I assume the sand/gravel that held it in place washed out too. The block slid out really easily and demolished the area I had been standing while belaying.

Same as Man Overbaord - I was always suspect of a phone book block at the roof - then watched a friend pull it off and try to nail his belayer - all worked out in the end, just a few choice words between them!

So the question is - what to do

So far we have had a few for trundling, a few for bolting a few for leaving it for erosion.

Ill take a few photos next time Im down and hopefully can come up with some usefull options.

Cheers.

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There are 24 messages in this topic.

 

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