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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

 Page 1 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 85
Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
VIC Grampians Halls Gap The Watchtower (General) [ Watchtower Guide | Images ] 

Author
Watchtower new bolted line.

Groveller
2/03/2014
6:37:04 PM
Hi , does anyone know what the line is called and the grade that is about 5 meters down from Jaguar pulse? It has 7 or more rings about 2 meters apart and starts off with a overhang.

nmonteith
2/03/2014
7:21:10 PM
It's my route from last year. I forget the name but it's grade 16 or 17 from memory. A nice easy sport route. There is a bunch of other new routes at that crag as well. All updates can be found on the Google Docs page I made called Grampians Sport Crags Updates. There is a link to it on the same named Chockstone topic. Sorry I can't link direct but I'm writing this with 0.5 bars of reception on my phone in the pouring rain.

nmonteith
2/03/2014
7:22:42 PM
Whilst being eaten by leeches

ajfclark
2/03/2014
7:37:09 PM
Grampians Sport Crags Update

Groveller
3/03/2014
7:36:04 AM
Thanks Neil, I will give it a go next time.

Groveller
3/03/2014
7:49:03 AM
By the way, there is a little retaining wall about 10 meters below Jaguar pulse. This is under a route that has a small over hang protected by a No. 3 cam at about 15 meters. There is another small overhang about 3 meters above this with what looks like a large chicken head from the ground.
Any ideas what this is and the grade? It doesn't seem to be in the guide book and I think it is about grade 10?
krumpit
5/03/2014
1:20:04 PM
First...disclaimer; I do enjoy sport climbing
Just as I enjoy trad, bouldering, aid and enything else climbing related...all have there place.
I also agree that sometimes, routes are unprotectable with trad and if they are worth it, then may need some bolts...when bolts get old, sometimes they need replacing too...

But seriously, these new routes up near jugular are bullshit Neil....not only that, but they aren't even new....its just indescriminate bolting of irrelevant lines.
All the rock below the Jugular platform is chossy, and while I have taken groups up there countless times for work, they are not worthy of a name nor a bolt.
The 16 has been showering rock every since it was bolted, the 17 LHV of Jugular has been lead by almost every person who has bailed on JP in the past (i have seen at least 6 people lead that line using JP bolts as much as possible) and meanders up a mossy and vegetated choss fest...
But really whats this all for....this use of bolts as the default position is not only making climbers look like environmental vandals, but also just puting up lines for the sake of it....
As I said at the top, I like sport, but it has its place...and that is protecting the truelly unprotectable....and then you have to decide is the climb truelly worth taking something away for....
I dont agree with the way this is currently taking place in the Gramps, and I am not the only one....
kp
5/03/2014
2:02:55 PM
Fair call. I bolted the LHV to Jugular Pulse, as I believe it was the logical line of least resistance. I'm well aware that it's not a classic and most likely been lead by bailing around JP.

Personally I feel your being a bit harsh on Neils route. I havn't seen anything come off it and I thought it was pretty good!!

cheers,
Kent
One Day Hero
5/03/2014
2:05:29 PM
Krumpit, this shit is happening everywhere, not just in your neck of the woods. It's only going to get worse, so if you don't want to see every bit of unclaimed choss peppered with rings this would be a good time to get active.

If the routes are truly that bad, just pull the bolts out. Don't feel that you have to negotiate or win a debate, they didn't ask your opinion before putting them in. You'll need a drill, a couple of 10mm masonry bits, and a tube of 2 part polyester or epoxy for patching holes. Depending on the drill and the hardness of the rock, you should be able to pull about 10 to 15 bolts per battery, and 10 bolts per hour once you have the method dialed. P.m. me if you want a complete rundown on the plucking technique :)
krumpit
5/03/2014
2:05:56 PM
I will take some photos at some point soon....seriously a liability...rocks the size of your fist coming off this thing...
kieranl
5/03/2014
2:20:29 PM
On 5/03/2014 One Day Hero wrote:
>before putting them in. You'll need a drill, a couple of 10mm masonry bits,
>and a tube of 2 part polyester or epoxy for patching holes. Depending on
>the drill and the hardness of the rock, you should be able to pull about
>10 to 15 bolts per battery, and 10 bolts per hour once you have the method
>dialed. P.m. me if you want a complete rundown on the plucking technique
>:)
For heaven's sake if you're going to drill more holes to chop the bolts then you're no different to the bolter. The primary damage is the drilled hole not the bolt in it. If you can't find a method of removing them without drilling (I believe there are a few depending on the bolt type) then just hacksaw them off. We may prefer to see a patch than a sawn-off bit of metal but that's cosmetic.
kp
5/03/2014
2:51:59 PM
On 5/03/2014 kieranl wrote:
>On 5/03/2014 One Day Hero wrote:
>>before putting them in. You'll need a drill, a couple of 10mm masonry
>bits,
>>and a tube of 2 part polyester or epoxy for patching holes. Depending
>on
>>the drill and the hardness of the rock, you should be able to pull about
>>10 to 15 bolts per battery, and 10 bolts per hour once you have the method
>>dialed. P.m. me if you want a complete rundown on the plucking technique
>>:)
>For heaven's sake if you're going to drill more holes to chop the bolts
>then you're no different to the bolter. The primary damage is the drilled
>hole not the bolt in it. If you can't find a method of removing them without
>drilling (I believe there are a few depending on the bolt type) then just
>hacksaw them off. We may prefer to see a patch than a sawn-off bit of metal
>but that's cosmetic.

I think this is ridiculous. These routes are in an obscure gully in the middle of nowhere.

There are actually serious issues happening down south that are potentially much bigger than this :(
kieranl
5/03/2014
2:58:26 PM
On 5/03/2014 kp wrote:
>I think this is ridiculous. These routes are in an obscure gully in the
>middle of nowhere.
>
>There are actually serious issues happening down south that are potentially
>much bigger than this :(
Quite agree. Pretty much an irrelevance.

Duang Daunk
5/03/2014
8:13:09 PM
Irrelevance?

Get real. ODH might not be everyones flavour, but up till now, he is the voice of a silent majority.

kp wrote;
>I think this is ridiculous. These routes are in an obscure gully in the middle of nowhere.

>There are actually serious issues happening down south that are potentially much bigger than this :(

Yeah?
When are you going to get serious and recognise that what you lable as ridiculous, is actually serious to many climbers, and dare I say it, to many bushwalking anti-bolt types as well?
krumpit
5/03/2014
9:05:09 PM
I am by no means trying to make this a personal attack on anyones ethics, but I think that as a user group of these areas, we need to seriously consider the impacts we are having....when choosing to bolt, make sure it is worth it...is the route able to be protected naturally and is the route good enough that it might be worth the hardware...personally i also think about how obvious this would be to the general public (proximity to walking tracks or sites of significance)...
If it doesnt tick the boxes, it just shouldnt be done...
There are more and more of these routes popping up in the Gramps...while some tick the boxes, others are just seem to be an exercise in ego stroking for FA's and making "your mark" on an area....
I have worked for parks vic, I have been a guide and I have heard all the opinions around this stuff from within climbing communities and from outside. Sadly, poor judgement could cost us all in the long run.
This is not some obscure gully either...this is a trade area and has been for almost as long as it has been climbed...this means that thousands of kids and teachers each year visit. They have no understanding of climbing and those people that choose to do it...but minimal impact principles and the "sense of adventure" are eroded when the cliff is glittering with the shine bolts...
One Day Hero
5/03/2014
9:11:00 PM
It's impressive how quickly the bolting apologists start trundling out the tired old clichés and plain errors of logic.

Bolting rock isn't a right, it's a negotiation and has been so since at least the early 70's. The problem is that the negotiation has been a little bit one sided for the last 20 years, so the current crop think they have a right to bolt. They don't. If the bolts offend you, and you have a sound reason as to why they should never have gone in, just chop them out (this is how the negotiation process works, talking without action doesn't achieve shit). I guarantee that if you leave them in, more will follow. Someone with even lower standards will use the existing routes as a justification for adding even more pathetic bolted lines.
Kieran is trying to tie you up with a bunch of false logic. You're not chopping the bolts out to try to restore the rock to its natural state. You're chopping them to preserve the natural state of all the other chossy shit in the area, which will certainly be bolted in the future unless you actively fight for it.
Kent is trying on the "children starving in Africa" argument. Problems down south? That sucks, better get these bolts chopped out quick smart so that everyone can focus on the bigger issue :)


Big G
5/03/2014
9:18:08 PM
On 5/03/2014 Duang Daunk wrote:
>he is the voice of a silent majority.
>
I'd love to see the stats on that... Are you positive that the silent majority are behind ODH or anyone else for that matter? Maybe they are silent because they don't really care.

Duang Daunk
5/03/2014
9:44:22 PM
On 5/03/2014 Big G wrote:
>On 5/03/2014 Duang Daunk wrote:
>>he is the voice of a silent majority.
>>
>I'd love to see the stats on that... Are you positive that the silent
>majority are behind ODH or anyone else for that matter? Maybe they are
>silent because they don't really care.

Or, because they are general public who are generally affected by apathy, but when it really comes to push and shove, actually do give a shit about the outcome involved?

Do you care Big G, or are you another apathetic shit stirrer when it suits you?
Read ODH's post above yours.
Care to elaborate your logic about not really caring?
kieranl
5/03/2014
9:48:14 PM
On 5/03/2014 One Day Hero wrote:
>Kieran is trying to tie you up with a bunch of false logic. You're not
>chopping the bolts out to try to restore the rock to its natural state.
>You're chopping them to preserve the natural state of all the other chossy
>shit in the area, which will certainly be bolted in the future unless you
>actively fight for it.
Actually I just said that if you're going to remove bolts don't further damage the rock while doing so. How complex is that?

Big G
5/03/2014
9:59:39 PM
On 5/03/2014 Duang Daunk wrote
>
>Do you care Big G, or are you another apathetic shit stirrer when it suits
>you?
>Read ODH's post above yours.
>Care to elaborate your logic about not really caring?

It's a bit rich calling me a sh#t stirrer. Your lack of self awareness is astonishing. Especially when you
then laud DOH.

Anyway in response to your logic query: You claimed that ODH, and I'm assuming you include yourself, are acting as voices for the silent majority. I merely questioned if a) you were in fact the majority and b) your interpretation of 'silent' which you appear to be trying to link to some feeling of brooding resentment of the climbing masses towards the out of control bolters. I'm just suggesting that maybe they're silent because they don't care or don't care enough to post on our little climbing forum. My care factor is irrelevant.

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There are 85 messages in this topic.

 

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