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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

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Bushfires in the Bluies

12:48:26 PM
On 22/10/2013 skegly wrote:
>For interest of climbing safety.
>What does a hot fire so to sandstone, granite and basalt.
>Also what about bolts, loose rock etc.
>I guess that fire doesn't burn up a sizable cliff if thete is no vegetation
>but interested to know.

The effect of a bushfire on sandstone subjects the rock to general heat (expansion/contraction) damage, but the soot creates a waxy impermeable layer that prevents water and salt ingress. Since it isn't a uniform layer all over the rock face all the permeable areas allow decay behind and around the impermeable areas, so it actually accelerates the spalling process.
1:59:33 PM
That is remarkably informative, Leith.

I was genuinely wondering what the effects would be at a geological level -and subsequently how it would affect the rock itself, and the bolts embedded within-, thanks for answering that question.

8:12:34 PM
On 22/10/2013 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>I have seen exfoliated granite after bushfires, where flakes etc expand
>in the heat and crack off.
Dunno about sandstone; certainly granite in Australia is mostly eroded by bushfire, not the ice expansion which breaks rock in Europe etc. That is very evident from the 2003 fires in Canberra.
The effect on bolts is untested as far as I know.
5:05:34 PM
Bardens and Mt York are virtually unaffected. Hopefully won't take too long to reopen the area.
8:40:00 PM
thermal shock is worst in and strong rock (granite or limestone). Sandstone is mostly affected on overanging wet walls, the area close to flames flakes off due to steam evolution

E. Wells
9:33:46 PM
Lo and behold...,controversy.. as the smoke cleared there is now a great grade 19 route starting from the base of Black Gold butress going straight to the top in one pitch on Ubolts with the exception of a #0.4 cam near top. Its 52 mtrs and there is a DUBB @ 15mtr where it intersects the Texas Tea traverse. This provides a good rap in hanging belay for Texas Tea as was mentioned in guidebook. Take 16 draws and take the tag of the first bolt for me.....
10:04:10 PM
Sounds interesting, we could do with more good routes at that grade. I'll check it out, does it go L or R of Texas Tea? Could you send me details for the guidebook, inc route name? Thanks.
7:36:10 AM
can you avoid having to own a cam to do a classic sport route? oris it optional (for an onsight grade 19 leader)

E. Wells
8:06:56 AM
It isnt optional. . . though I suppose it is if your up to it. If anyone on this forum doesnt own a cam or set of tricams too bad. Get a rack or run it out. The route is called " long distance relationships" anyhow.

10:41:12 AM
One cam placement in a 52m bolted route?! Sounds a bit silly.

10:57:55 AM
On 29/10/2013 nmonteith wrote:
>One cam placement in a 52m bolted route?! Sounds a bit silly.

"You don't have to clip it if you don't want to" ;-)
10:58:30 AM
why bolt a route then make it unpopular? why not do it a mixture of carrots and pitons instead?

12:24:55 PM
For what it's worth, I appreciate an ethic of not placing bolts next to solid trad placements. This leads to lots of mixed climbing in the Blues, and I think that's great.
2:18:30 PM
On 29/10/2013 nmonteith wrote:
>One cam placement in a 52m bolted route?! Sounds a bit silly.

Meh, if it's a good and obvious placement, why place a bolt? I'd have to agree with the idea that if you don't own the odd bit of trad gear, you'll just have to suck it up and climb something else. Not all routes have to cater for everybody. Carrying a single cam won't deter most people. Unless you think that most people who might consider climbing a multipitch 19 in the Blueys incapable of placing a single cam, especially when they've been told exactly what and approximately where.

2:37:06 PM
On another note and back to the fires. Looks like there is some damp weather hitting the mountains for a change.

3:04:06 PM
On 29/10/2013 kuu wrote:
>On 29/10/2013 nmonteith wrote:
>>One cam placement in a 52m bolted route?! Sounds a bit silly.
>"You don't have to clip it if you don't want to" ;-)


E. Wells
4:08:36 PM
So I got on 'Big Red' today. Although there is no mention of it in the guide, you need a wire or two for the first 6 meters, then there is 22 fixed hangers to clip for the next 50 odd meters. About the cam placement on the other route, its too solid to not incorporate, it will never rust.
5:48:27 PM
Ha ha, nice try. It's a sport route, tho first bolts used to be a lot higher back then.

If you're rebolting it feel free to add what would feel safe to the average grade 16 bumbly.

E. Wells
6:22:00 PM
Nice try?!..FFS.. I did get on this route this morning and it is totally trad start and not 16. It was a coincidence but I am pointing out hypocrisy. There are no bolts there because there is gear. No problem. The difference is that I am wishing to let people know so they dont take a freaking rack like I have done on some mixed lines only to put a bit in.

6:38:20 PM
Nice work on the new route Mr E....your vision, your route, if peeps don't like try one of the other 1000 or so lines in the blueys...note I hate mixed routes but certainly don't care if someone puts one up, end affect doesn't really affect me at all and appreciate the effort gone into it..... no matter the outcome.

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