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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

 Page 1 of 14. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 200 | 201 to 220 | 221 to 240 | 241 to 260 | 261 to 271
Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
VIC Buffalo The Horn Environs (General) The Horn [ Horn Guide ] 

Author
Bolting at The Horn, Mount Buffalo

ajfclark
Online Now
4/02/2013
3:32:14 PM
Was up at The Horn recently and noticed a few newish bolts in the routes around the base of the Pintle and on The LHV of The Pintle. Here's the list off the top of my head:

11 BRs in Profanities (was 0)
6 BRs in Crowlands (was 3)
Rap anchor above Dick Selector
4 (or maybe 5) BRs either side of the wide left then right leading crack in the photo below
3 BRs in the boulder between The Pintle and Selwyn's Slag Heap (see pic)
1 BR on The Pintle LHV where the flake used to be





Anyone know anything about any of these? Also trying to figure out where Giggle and Hoot and Swervin' Mervin are that are listed here: http://www.thecrag.com/climbing/australia/buffalo/the-horn
Cam McKenzie
4/02/2013
4:10:24 PM
On 4/02/2013 ajfclark wrote:

>1 BR on The Pintle LHV where the flake used to be

When did the flake fall off? I haven't climbed up at the horn for years. Is the LHV still any good? Was a bit of a classic prior to the flake falling off.
anthonycuskelly
4/02/2013
6:11:56 PM
thecrag.com lists Profanities as being sport with 9 bolts and Crowlands as having 6, so I don't think they're that new. The block in the lower photo is Easter Island according to the same source. All routes have had descriptions added/changed by one Andrew Davis (I have no idea who he is), so he may have more idea (or he may have just been the most motivated to update details).

Edit: Last update to those descriptions was two years ago, so they're at least that old.

phillipivan
4/02/2013
8:38:06 PM
I climbed the Pintle LHV over christmas and don't recall any bolts, and the flake was still attached. Except for the rap anchor at the top of the 2nd pitch, which I dont think was there the 1st time I climbed it.
JDB
5/02/2013
8:27:00 AM
I climbed Pintle LHV late last year, and the 'said' flake is still firmly attached, however there was one carrot just above the flake from memory
Nick Clow
5/02/2013
8:38:19 AM
If I am getting this straight, there are 3 bolts on that boulder?

If this is the case, what you are really saying is that (yet another) complete nob has been placing bolts on inappropriate and worthless 'climbs'.

ajfclark
Online Now
5/02/2013
8:53:28 AM
On 5/02/2013 Nick Clow wrote:
>If I am getting this straight, there are 3 bolts on that boulder?

Yes, the first is clippable standing on the first bulge, the next is just above the horizontal, the last next to the vertical cracks. There's no anchor bolts though.

ajfclark
Online Now
5/02/2013
8:59:42 AM
On 4/02/2013 anthonycuskelly wrote:
>thecrag.com lists Profanities as being sport with 9 bolts and Crowlands
>as having 6, so I don't think they're that new. The block in the lower
>photo is Easter Island according to the same source. All routes have had
>descriptions added/changed by one Andrew Davis (I have no idea who he is),
>so he may have more idea (or he may have just been the most motivated to
>update details).
>
>Edit: Last update to those descriptions was two years ago, so they're at least that old.

I'd noticed this. I also see that his description for Selwyn's Slag Heap doesn't match the original route description or the topo line for the same so I think Swervin' Mervin is the 5 bolts either side of the zig zag crack. I must've missed another line of bolts for Giggle and Hoot.
kieranl
5/02/2013
9:37:01 AM
I have a vague feeling that someone mentioned putting a bolt on the Pintle LHV some time ago to me. Probably not a bad thing at the top of that flake, if something goes wrong you're going for a very long way.
I remember having a wobbler on the top flake during the FA. Fought my way up to the semi-detached section, having to clean lichen off every hold then got scared and lowered off for Kevin to finish it. Total bummer.

Superstu
5/02/2013
10:39:06 AM
Bummer that a totally fine route like The Pintle LHV got retrobolted. People have been climbing it in its original form for donkeys years without a problem. Even in the Lindorff/Murray guide describes it as '... the pick of the bunch for introductory climbs at this grade on the plateau'..... !
Who would have thought, all these years grade 16 bumblies have been sandbagged on this horrible death route! Eeek!
anthonycuskelly
5/02/2013
10:44:50 AM
Nick, I'm sure what Buffalo actually needs is some short, over-protected beginner sport leads... [/sarcasm]
One Day Hero
5/02/2013
10:53:56 AM
On 5/02/2013 Superstu wrote:
>Far out, I'm almost ready to hang up my boots for good after all this stupid
>retrobolting that's been going on, the sport has degenerated into golf.

Stu, for fuch's sake, stop being a pussy (that goes for you too, Andrew). If the bloke who owns the drill had the same sense of consideration and restraint which you guys are displaying, there wouldn't be any bolts to fret about.

Do you feel like you need permission? You two are smart enough and have been climbing long enough to know utter bullshit when you see it. You're sure as fuch more qualified to make a judgement call than the moron who put the bolts in.

Don't put it off by going on a "fact finding mission". Next time you visit Buffalo, just commit to getting the job done. Pack a proper tool kit, and take that shit out. If you can work out who put the bolts in, find them and lean on them as hard as is necessary to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Mike Bee
5/02/2013
7:32:59 PM
ODH often says some things that I don't agree with, but here it sounds like he's right on the money.
Andrew Davis
5/02/2013
8:07:49 PM
Thanks to a mate who let me know about this thread. Good to see some helpful comments from a number of you, others no so much. Sorry if you dont know me, ive been a regular at Mt Buffalo for some time and happy climbing mid-range 12-20 (maybe id be a little more famous if i was pushing grades 28+)
The 4 climbs around the Horn i added in The Crag probably wouldn't interest most of you but they are excellent for climbers in the region just starting out. They also get used regularly by secondary Colleges and TAFE in the local area. And i know some say climbers starting out should head to Arapiles as Buffalo is just for the courageous who don't fall or you'll die, but some of us enjoy the local mountains and don't want to drive 7 hours to Arapiles.
One of the early improvements i know about is Profanities. 5 years ago profanities had no bolts and the guide said to throw a static down it with a few knots to clip to. IMO its now one of the most consistent and enjoyable climbs in the area.
I am aware of the discussion about LHV 3 years back when 30cm off the top of the flake cracked off. The BR is off to the right side and hard to see but those who search hard for protection in the top half would be grateful to find it, many however cruise past unaware its there just hoping to get to the top without falling.
Anyhow happy to hear what others think without the abuse, as i know many of you also enjoy getting outdoors with friends and introducing them to a recreation you love.

E. Wells
5/02/2013
8:54:44 PM
Looks like nice rock, seems a little strange to bolt a little boulder, seems a tad unfortunate to bolt around a crack and invent new climbs that still climb the cracks, Im a long way away though and maybe it just looks like its protect-able.
I did a climbing course with Blue Mountains Tafe and we weren't allowed to use bolts where ever natural protection and belays could be found. I personally think that for climbers 'just starting out' they can toprope and if need be simulate placing gear? Or just bring a first aid kit and learn on the go...
It sounds like one or two carrots may be appreciated and one or two may be missing next summer?

IdratherbeclimbingM9
5/02/2013
9:31:02 PM
On 5/02/2013 Andrew Davis wrote:
>Thanks to a mate who let me know about this thread. Good to see some helpful
>comments from a number of you, others no so much. Sorry if you dont know
>me, ive been a regular at Mt Buffalo for some time and happy climbing mid-range
>12-20 (maybe id be a little more famous if i was pushing grades 28+)
>The 4 climbs around the Horn i added in The Crag probably wouldn't interest
>most of you but they are excellent for climbers in the region just starting
>out.


You bolted them, or just added them to The Crag?

>They also get used regularly by secondary Colleges and TAFE in the
>local area. And i know some say climbers starting out should head to Arapiles
>as Buffalo is just for the courageous who don't fall or you'll die, but
>some of us enjoy the local mountains and don't want to drive 7 hours to
>Arapiles.
>One of the early improvements i know about is Profanities. 5 years ago
>profanities had no bolts and the guide said to throw a static down it with
>a few knots to clip to. IMO its now one of the most consistent and enjoyable
>climbs in the area.
>I am aware of the discussion about LHV 3 years back when 30cm off the
>top of the flake cracked off.

Two earlier posts in this thread attest to the fact that the flake was intact up till about xmas 2012...
I climbed that route again on the Australia Day w/end.
The top of the flake appears to have been broken with a hammer and/or or levered off in my opinion.
The flake used to have a flat top about 250 mm x 30 mm, now it is approx 1 m x 60 mm, and is a ledge by comparison.
The new break is not one continuous line but is in two parts. Hard to describe, but what I am saying is that it is not a single clean break.
There was no previous hairline fracture in it, as I used to protect it with RPs and a weighted cliffhanger, none of which would have worked if the flake was suspect. I have climbed it many times using this method and inspected it each time for any intervening period deterioration.

Did you break off the top of that flake?

>The BR is off to the right side and hard
>to see but those who search hard for protection in the top half would be
>grateful to find it, many however cruise past unaware its there just hoping
>to get to the top without falling.
>Anyhow happy to hear what others think without the abuse, as i know many
>of you also enjoy getting outdoors with friends and introducing them to
>a recreation you love.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
5/02/2013
9:50:23 PM
On 5/02/2013 Nick Clow wrote:
>If I am getting this straight, there are 3 bolts on that boulder?
>
>If this is the case, what you are really saying is that (yet another)
>complete nob has been placing bolts on inappropriate and worthless 'climbs'.

This boulder is located about 10 m left of The Pintle (facing Pintle), and it's three bolts are in full view to anyone belaying Pintle.
The vertical cracks on it are protectable with mid size cams.

There are any number of other boulders in the area, but whilst belaying the leader on Pintle during Australia Day w/end I couldn't help but wonder why it had been done, let alone to the extent it had.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
5/02/2013
10:00:35 PM
On 5/02/2013 Andrew Davis wrote:
>they are excellent for climbers in the region just starting out. They also get used regularly by secondary Colleges and TAFE in the local area. And i know some say climbers starting out should head to Arapiles as Buffalo is just for the courageous who don't fall or you'll die, but
>some of us enjoy the local mountains and don't want to drive 7 hours to Arapiles.

I also consider myself a Buffalo local, and regularly take beginner climbers to Mt Buffalo.
They usually enjoy the slabs with me, and other low grade classics like Currawong Swan Song, ... and in fact often have their first leads on such climbs.
There are plenty of climbs there where you will not die if you fall.

I am not fond of the lengthy drive to Arapiles either, but neither do I want to see a traditional area like Buffalo subjugated in this fashion by overuse of bolts (particularly retroing), and inappropriate placement of bolts. This practise takes away my enjoyment of the local mountain.


>Anyhow happy to hear what others think without the abuse, as i know many
>of you also enjoy getting outdoors with friends and introducing them to a recreation you love.

I will continue to do so, but I won't be taking them on any bolted profanities like that nondescript boulder.







On 5/02/2013 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 5/02/2013 Superstu wrote:
>>Far out, I'm almost ready to hang up my boots for good after all this
>stupid
>>retrobolting that's been going on, the sport has degenerated into golf.
>
>Stu, for fuch's sake, stop being a pussy (that goes for you too, Andrew).
>If the bloke who owns the drill had the same sense of consideration and
>restraint which you guys are displaying, there wouldn't be any bolts to
>fret about.
>
>Do you feel like you need permission? You two are smart enough and have
>been climbing long enough to know utter bullshit when you see it. You're
>sure as fuch more qualified to make a judgement call than the moron who
>put the bolts in.
>
>Don't put it off by going on a "fact finding mission". Next time you visit
>Buffalo, just commit to getting the job done. Pack a proper tool kit, and
>take that shit out. If you can work out who put the bolts in, find them
>and lean on them as hard as is necessary to make sure it doesn't happen
>again.

Post noted.
What do you think of it Andrew Davis?
anthonycuskelly
6/02/2013
8:12:23 AM
Well, we're getting somewhere at least (though Andrew, your ideas of what people around here climb seem a bit inflated). A few questions:

- Did you personally place the bolts, or simply add the descriptions to thecrag.com? If you didn't place the bolts, do you know who did.

- Were the changes to existing routes discussed with the first ascentionists? If not, why not? Geoff Gledhill (for one) is still climbing around there. Every ethic I'm aware of says not to retrobolt without first discussing with the first ascentionists.

- Are the bolted cracks protectable with gear? If so, what is your reasoning for bolting them? In a 'traditional' area like Buffalo (ie, it's not Nowra), I would consider this unethical.

I'll be up there from Monday for a week...
kieranl
6/02/2013
10:32:40 AM
On 6/02/2013 GoUp! wrote:
>
>Related point but in danger of taking the discussion off-topic.
>Re retro-ing. As I've proposed/argued in other threads, I don't believe
>the first acensionist should be making the call of whether a route should
>be retro-ed. Sure, they may have climbed the route first but this does
>not make them the owner to decide the future fate of the route. As far
>as I'm concerned, the route is to remain in the same style as when it was
>first ascended, or become 'cleaner' as technology advances. That is, no
>retroing ever - period.
You're correct, it's OT. Create your own thread.
>
>

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There are 271 messages in this topic.

 

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