Goto Chockstone Home

  Guide
  Gallery
  Tech Tips
  Articles
  Reviews
  Dictionary
  Links
  Forum
  Search
  About

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

  Shop
FREIGHT FREE
in Australia

Black Diamond: 10mm DYNEX: 60cm (24") Runner. (Open round sling) Great for making "extender" quick-draws. IMO   $10.00
28% Off

Chockstone Photography Australian Landscape Photography by Michael Boniwell
Australian Landscape Prints





Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

 Page 2 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 55
Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
VIC Buffalo Gorge North Side Wilkinson's Lookout Environs [ Gorge Guide ] 

Author
Mt Buffalo Aid Routes + Radios
gfdonc
22/06/2004
12:45:07 PM
Umm .. not sure you've got my meaning. I was responding to comments (Neil's?) that implied there was secure hammerless aid just because it had been free climbed. I take his point, but you can freeclimb stuff that can't be aided.

To answer your question, though, it depends on the party's aims. Most groups chugging off to the north wall of the gorge are hoping to get to the top by any means possible (within ethical boundaries!). If they turn up with a set of etriers each then I assume they're planning to aid large sections and then yes, bathooking a blank section would be fine. On the other hand if they're rapped down with a light rack and no sleeping gear I expect they've come to attempt a free route and would not resort to bathooking unless they give up (effectively).

IdratherbeclimbingM9
22/06/2004
1:09:02 PM
On 22/06/2004 gfdonc wrote:
>Umm .. not sure you've got my meaning. I was responding to comments (Neil's?)
>that implied there was secure hammerless aid just because it had been free
>climbed.

No meaning assumed or implied; ... just continuing discussion. I agree with you that most people would aid those lines.
Preferably they do so as clean aid.

> I take his point, but you can freeclimb stuff that can't be aided.
... and you can aid stuff that can't be freeclimbed,
.. and you can also aid stuff that your own ability won't allow you to freeclimb, though others may do free.

On my solo attempt I flattened a couple of tin cans with the hammer (to take up less wombat space), from my evening meal of the previous night. When the other team arrived I found it intrigueing that they accused me of hammering the route!, as they could hear the hammering but not see me due to approaching down the Crystal Brook streambed from having abseiled Defender Of the Faith, (all the way to the creek)!

I have had the dickens of a time free aiding blank stuff normally climbable (for me also) in the dry, but in wet conditions beyond my free limit, hence my question/s.
I have not resorted to bathooking, but I can understand why it would be tempting to some, after it takes me a couple of hours to climb a couple of metres!!

Generally I dont like to be tied to a timeframe when I aid. I don't usually care how long it takes as long as I stick to my ethics; and am also happy to put up with a bit of dehydration thrown in, so that the only real limitation (timewise), is water in realistic amounts for the undertaking.

" I am not young enough to know everything. "
- Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)


gfdonc
22/06/2004
2:00:26 PM
Sorry one more clarification.
When you said bathooking I was thinking of skyhooking on existing rock formations. I realise now you were probably talking about drilling holes.

In that case, no.

I was a partial witness to the birth of Clouded Queen (crux pitch was being drilled/climbed when we were heading up Ozy Direct after doing Knocking on H.D.) and I'm still unsure whether to be awed by the boldness or disgusted by the contrived vandalism. Not having done the route gives me less reason to comment though.

Your comment about aiding stuff that can't be freeclimbed is under threat from Mr S. Monks!

IdratherbeclimbingM9
22/06/2004
2:18:20 PM
Yes, I was referring to drilling holes.

I appreciate things evolve. I doubt many of the 1st ascentionists of those lines ever expected them to go free (eventually?).
Full kudos to Steve Monks et al.

I may one day bathook a blank line and name it (as has already been done elsewhere);
'Now Free That You Bastads'
... It will eventually happen, but I doubt I will live long enough to see it, on the basis of Ozy & Gumtree going free about 40 years after the 1st ascents.

nmonteith
22/06/2004
2:46:50 PM
On 22/06/2004 A5iswhereitsat wrote:

>Does this mean you would condone (say, for example), bathooking a blank
>section if the person did not have the free ability to do it clean?
>
>What about if the slab was wet where otherwise the climber would have
>had the free ability but got caught by circumstance?

I would certainly not agree with drilling holes for bathooks up a free route! If the climber gets caught by circumstance then they should rap off and go home - not lower the route to his/her level.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
22/06/2004
2:57:33 PM
On 22/06/2004 nmonteith wrote:
>I would certainly not agree with drilling holes for bathooks up a free
>route! It the climbers gets caught my circumstance then they should rap
>off and go home - not lower the route to his/her level.
I agree.

Question: (picking up gfdonc flavour again here)
What if the route is considered an aid route to start with?

Hypothetical Question:
If a climber is hurt 250m up a 300 m route at Nth Wall Buffalo and a bathook hole would allow a quicker 'get off' compared to abseiling the route and hiking out another way ...
What would you do then?

nmonteith
22/06/2004
3:05:32 PM
Yell across the gorge to the millions of tourists and get a resuce! Buffalo is hardly a place where you need to rely on dangerous self rescue options. If you can drill a bathook hole then in theory you should be able to climb it clean. At best the bathook hole would take 5-10minutes to drill in hard granite.
gfdonc
22/06/2004
3:47:27 PM
Actually next time I get on the North Wall (might happen this year) I'm planning to take UHF radios. If really lucky will have a ground crew with radio. Any experiences ppl want to relate with using walkie talkies on aid routes?

nmonteith
22/06/2004
3:50:02 PM
Mobile phones work fine on the north wall as well!

IdratherbeclimbingM9
22/06/2004
4:27:15 PM
On 22/06/2004 nmonteith wrote:
>Yell across the gorge to the millions of tourists and get a resuce!
During some of my sojourns there I have spent days at a time without seeing anyone. Admittedly the weather was bad though, but who knows when sh*t will happen ...

>If you can drill a bathook hole then in theory you should be able to climb
>it clean.
I have come across situations there which don't fit the stereotype.

Its all hypothetical anyway, since I do not know of anyone taking a hand-drill up the wall in recent years ... (& I can't imagine taking a power drill there, though the 'new belays' for freeclimbing it were probably done in that fashion?).

gfdonc
>UHF radios. If really lucky will have a ground crew with radio. Any experiences ppl want to relate with using walkie talkies on aid routes?
I have used a walky talky from the wall to a person at a lookout on the hang-glider ramp side successfully during my last solo effort. The only place it did not work was when I was standing left of the 1st bolt at the base of Ozy, ie within the recessed base of Comet Ramp access route.
One needs to be mindful to choose a frequency channel that Parks does not use, as they are not keen on idle chit chat.
Also if there are a significant number of hang-gliders about your channel options become less too!
I found the unit very savage on battery power ...
A pre-arranged sched time verification of "I'm OK" over a few days killed the 4 x AA batts quite dead. Most of the power was used just turning it on and keeping it alive while waiting on the 'groundcrew' to check in. I also found it a pain to hear it crackle, only to stop what I was doing, retrieve it out of the cargo pants and find it was 'unwanted radio traffic'.
It may have its best usefulness in the vicinity of the main roof, if you have a belayer.
On another occasion (without walky talkies) I found verbal communication from Gledhill Bivvy to below that roof problematic on a windy evening. We also had verbal comm. probs from the headwall belay above 'The Fang', back down to Gledhill Bivvy ...
Seems the roofs play tricks. Dont know how walky talkies would go there if you cannot see the other person as they work best by 'line of sight'. Perhaps the 'groundcrew' could relay messages?

nmonteith
>Mobile phones work fine on the north wall as well!
Not at all locations. I have had problems in the Big Grassy area (very scratchy reception / minimal signal strength), and also signal 'dropping out' from certain positions on the 'Wilkinson Ledge' (about 27m below topout).
gfdonc
22/06/2004
4:40:23 PM
On 22/06/2004 A5iswhereitsat wrote:
>nmonteith
>>Mobile phones work fine on the north wall as well!
>Not at all locations. I have had problems in the Big Grassy area (very
>scratchy reception), and also 'dropping out' from certain positions on
>the 'Wilkinson Ledge' about 27m below topout.

Telstra or Optus or Vodafone?

IdratherbeclimbingM9
22/06/2004
4:54:40 PM
Dont know gfdonc. It was my belayers phone. I will try to find out for you.
You might want to re-read my last message, as I edited it to include more info.

phil box
22/06/2004
5:07:19 PM
I have some fairly new UHF radios and they are way economical on battery power. I have used them on a wall and they make life sooo much simpler for communicating between the belayer and the leader.

nmonteith
22/06/2004
5:22:38 PM
Yep - Phils radios are awesome. We had them on 12 hours a day for weeks on end in Tassie and they never died. We talked on them quite regularly as well. Miracles to be sure!

climbau
23/06/2004
10:06:55 AM
I've used the standard little Uniden jobbies in various locations (including Buffalo) and find that you can get quite good contact even without line of site. I suppose it also depends on atmospheric conditions and other obstacles of interference. Also you can get earpieces like what the security guys at your local meat market have, I've found them really good when working off ropes.
Phil, what sort of radios were you and Neil using in tassie?
gfdonc
23/06/2004
11:42:00 AM
OK A5. Thanks for the updates.
What part of Ozy is referred to as Fang?
I have also had trouble talking through the roofs and even on the upper stretches in a wind.
I currently have 4 UHF radios, all handhelds. 2 "Digitor" 500mW models and two GME 1W models. The Digitors can be found for about $79 at stores like Jaycar whereas the GME's were purchased mail order from Prestige Communications in WA for $94 plus postage which is substantially less than the "discounted" retail price at local resellers.

For my money the GME's are a better unit. Not sure the extra power converts into substantial extra range, although am yet to make a real comparison. Had no trouble talking to Rosea campsite from the cliff. The GME's are slimmer which makes them easier to hold, generally have a better user interface and a few extra features. The only feature I really use though is the call alert (send) which works much better than saying "Hello? Hello" repeatedly. It's keylock function is also useful when climbing.

The other issue is battery life. Despite the extra power I reckon the GME's last longer. I use 4xAAA NiMH in both units and find the Digitors will cut out long before the GME's. More to the point, transferring the "flat" batteries from the Digitors to the GMEs will allow them to be used for at least two more hours! Seems that alkalines work better in the Digitors.

Why do I have 4? Umm .. "gear freak"?
- Steve

phil box
23/06/2004
2:47:48 PM
climbau, I have the standard Uniden jiggers which cost around $100. They have amazing battery life. One thing though is that when low on battery they can receive but not broadcast as Lee found out on the way back from the Moai.

Umm, raises hand sheepishly too and admits to being a gear freak as well. I also have form of these units. I can`t remember whether we started a Chockstone chapter of gear freaks anonymous.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
23/06/2004
5:47:56 PM
On 23/06/2004 gfdonc wrote:
>OK A5. Thanks for the updates.
>What part of Ozy is referred to as Fang?
The Fang is the large toothlike feature (obvious from South side lookouts) between Gledhill Bivvy and the next triple bolt belay on the headwall. Its actually part of the 8th pitch of Lord Gumtree when doing Ozy Direct.
It is white coloured on its right hand side but brown/grey on its face.
That pitch is 30 m long, which would make the Fang about 8m long and located in the middle of the pitch.
The Fang is awkward (& strenuous) to aid, because you go up under it, into its bowels, then move left to take the flared chimney forming its left side. This chimney goes free at about Gd 18 but its Exposed; (note the capital E). If you aid the chimney your pro is far to your side and with etts clipped the crack keeps pulling you into it -> strugglefest!
Tip: Don't leave gear at the end of the left moves leading into the chimney or else you could find your rope snarling same.
The triple bolt belay on the headwall is located in a water smear and I reckon one of the bolts is a bit suss.

Some parties avoid the chimney by taking the curving right hand side of Fang. Exiting the roof onto the headwall in this fashion involves negotiating a missing rivet.

Staying with the Gumtree line, some parties skip belaying at Gledhill Bivvy and belay from the alcove just beneath Fang. By doing this they can then skip the headwall belay and run it out to the base of the last (easy) chimney (vide LH side of Fang chimney) located about 10m below Wilkinson Ledge. This only leaves one pitch of about 40m to topout.

Page 70 of the Mt Buffalo Guide has an excellent B&W photo of the Gledhills with leader at the Fang, and belayer
gfdonc
23/06/2004
9:59:19 PM
Ah. If I'd had to guess, that's what I thought Fang was referring to. Thanks A5.
That flared crack is a prick to second, too, by the way. Anyone 'jugged' it by swapping 2x#4 Friends? Scary.
Got the haul bag stuck under the lip in the dark once. Only way I got it free was rapping back down part way in the dark (after leading p9 by headtorch) then pushing the rope as far out from the cliff as possible. Think: locked off jumars, 800' of exposure, dangling horizontal with feet on the rock, body pointing outwards into space, on tiptoes stretching outwards, then yelling at the crew above to haul. Just as well it was dark.
- Steve

IdratherbeclimbingM9
24/06/2004
2:57:06 PM
On 23/06/2004 gfdonc wrote:
>Anyone 'jugged' it by swapping 2x#4 Friends? Scary.
I did it leapfrogging 3 cams till I left one for pro, then 2 for a couple of moves. I think from memory I was using Metolius No.10's and a Camalot 4.5.
I was facing right, and by the time I finished that pitch had destroyed the toe of my left boot.

>Got the haul bag stuck under the lip in the dark once.
My partner had no hassles hauling from Gledhill to the headwall, though I can see that as being a real possibility. Are you sure it wasn't the lip of the Gledhill roof gobbling your wombat instead of the Fang?

On another occasion I was jumaring that pitch and had hassles with the static and lead ropes becoming inter-twined. My bodywieght kept the ropes pinned against the rock up higher and so I was forced to push the tangles ahead of me, -> good fun approaching the belay!

All this sounds like the place is to be avoided; but I would happily go back tomorrow if I could. Despite its difficulties it is a magic place to be ...

 Page 2 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 55
There are 55 messages in this topic.

 

Home | Guide | Gallery | Tech Tips | Articles | Reviews | Dictionary | Forum | Links | About | Search
Chockstone Photography | Landscape Photography Australia | Australian Landscape Photography

Please read the full disclaimer before using any information contained on these pages.



Australian Panoramic | Australian Coast | Australian Mountains | Australian Countryside | Australian Waterfalls | Australian Lakes | Australian Cities | Australian Macro | Australian Wildlife
Landscape Photo | Landscape Photography | Landscape Photography Australia | Fine Art Photography | Wilderness Photography | Nature Photo | Australian Landscape Photo | Stock Photography Australia | Landscape Photos | Panoramic Photos | Panoramic Photography Australia | Australian Landscape Photography | Mothers Day Gifts | Gifts for Mothers Day | Mothers Day Gift Ideas | Ideas for Mothers Day | Wedding Gift Ideas | Christmas Gift Ideas | Fathers Day Gifts | Gifts for Fathers Day | Fathers Day Gift Ideas | Ideas for Fathers Day | Landscape Prints | Landscape Poster | Limited Edition Prints | Panoramic Photo | Buy Posters | Poster Prints