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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

 Page 1 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 55
Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
VIC Buffalo Gorge North Side Wilkinson's Lookout Environs [ Gorge Guide ] 

Author
Mt Buffalo Aid Routes + Radios

maxots
19/06/2004
12:53:17 PM
i think I read about you soloing ozy at some point,
any chance of a trip report >????

ive just started some solo aid on the local crag (being my school outdoor climbing wall > got to start small) anyway im just interested > thanks !

IdratherbeclimbingM9
19/06/2004
5:02:10 PM
Will think about it.
I may be offline for a month or so shortly ...

[Post edit 24/06/04
To clarify for anyone confused; this thread started out titled as
'To A5 is where its at'
... and morphed into Mt Buffalo aid routes & radios ...]

maxots
20/06/2004
9:34:28 AM
ahh come on please ???

IdratherbeclimbingM9
20/06/2004
9:02:17 PM
It was an unsuccesful attempt on Lord Gumtree as a roped solo.

Basically went prepared for snow and got beaten off with 38+ degree heat, not enough water, too much gear, moving too slowly, blah blah etc.
Discretion is the better part of valour or so they say; and since I live locally to Buffalo its no big deal for me to return at a later date ...

Another party arrived to do Ozy Direct and invited me to join them, as I was in the process of coming down.
I agreed to tag along and offered to do their hauling and cleaning, since I have already led all pitches on that line, so I joined them at the Ozy 1st belay.
A day later they also decided to pull the pin for much the same reasons that I had, ... even though a team of three should (in theory) be much quicker than a team of two.

Since they arrived at this decision without my input it vindicated my thinking (by default), so that made me feel a bit better. As Gore Vidal once said,
"It is not enough to succeed, others must fail" !
... It was their second attempt on that line also, as they had been rained off previously.

I learnt a lot (mostly what not to take), and enjoyed several nights out on the wall on my new ledge, as I was climbing Gumtree solo onsight ground up (& without returning to the ground), capsule style.
The task is still before me, but I am quietly confident that I am equal to it. Just need to prioritise my other life events to fit another attempt in when the weather is more obliging ...

A trip report would probably be muchly on the technical side. Placed x stopper, y cam etc., but the idea of posting some soloist type musings on the meaning of it all in the form of a 'Damien style' of short story / excerpts from diary? might interest some??

ant
21/06/2004
11:15:29 AM
>A trip report would probably be muchly on the technical side. Placed x
>stopper, y cam etc., but the idea of posting some soloist type musings
>on the meaning of it all in the form of a 'Damien style' of short story
>/ excerpts from diary? might interest some??
>

That would be great A5
gfdonc
21/06/2004
1:55:21 PM
Arr, Anthony, getting some beta for the December attempt?
Hey A5, were you nutting or nailing?
- Steve

nmonteith
21/06/2004
2:07:39 PM
No one should be nailing Lord Gumtree these days - espcially since it was finally free climbed by Steve Monks a few months back.
gfdonc
21/06/2004
4:14:59 PM
What relevance was that last comment?
Gumtree was (as far as I recall) originally done on pitons.
It has been successfully nutted at M8 I recall.
It has been free climbed (musta missed this post?) at what grade? 27?
Q. Does the fact that it has been freed preclude someone wanting to aid it?
Q. Does the fact that it has been done on nuts preclude someone nailing it? (In the style of the first ascent, after all)?

maxots
21/06/2004
4:36:47 PM
On 21/06/2004 gfdonc wrote:
>What relevance was that last comment?
>Gumtree was (as far as I recall) originally done on pitons.
>It has been successfully nutted at M8 I recall.
>It has been free climbed (musta missed this post?) at what grade? 27?
>Q. Does the fact that it has been freed preclude someone wanting to aid
>it?

i would guess the point here is that if steve monks can place nuts on free lead, you should be able to while in aiders...presuming he didn't use his hammer while leading 27 ...... yeah he mighta clipped fixed stuff, but so can you.

>Q. Does the fact that it has been done on nuts preclude someone nailing
>it? (In the style of the first ascent, after all)?

isn't the accepted ethic these days that if its not that hard to clean aid it one should (or at least minimalise piton use) > its pretty selfish to go back and to it original style and trash the rock with a piton every few feet, at least try and minimise your nailing
johnchurch@
21/06/2004
4:39:02 PM
Sometime recently , Steve Monks commented that the free grade of Ozy had slipped at least one grade , since he freed it , due to the on-going piton placing / removal , on aided ascents.

Cheers, John

nmonteith
21/06/2004
4:41:18 PM
On 21/06/2004 gfdonc wrote:
>What relevance was that last comment?

I thought I would set people straight who thought it was still ok to nail routes that hundreds of people have done clean.

>Gumtree was (as far as I recall) originally done on pitons.

Yes it was doen first on pitons - but then it was done hammerless over twenty years ago. It is now C3 (clean A3) when done on natural gear with no hammers- that grade is not dangerous and could be done by anyone who has also aided Ozymandias cleanly.

>It has been successfully nutted at M8 I recall.

I did it a few years back. Its fine. Nothing too bad - max clean 15m fall in places.

>It has been free climbed (musta missed this post?) at what grade? 27?

Read all about it in the next Rock mag. Steve Monks has been beavering away on attempting the free ascent for years. This summer he finally got up the thing at grade 29 (take that grade skeptically!!)

>Q. Does the fact that it has been freed preclude someone wanting to aid
>it?

Bashing in pitons damages the rock - it enlarges fingerlocks - and even worse can rip off vital holds. If you have ever climbed any of the 'classic' aid or free routes in Yosemite you will have seen the appaling pin scars up routes. A thin hair line fracture is now a beaten out pocketed handcrack. It looks and climbs excatly like a fully chipped route. We shoudl encouarge people to use natural gear.

>Q. Does the fact that it has been done on nuts preclude someone nailing
>it? (In the style of the first ascent, after all)?

see above. It has been aided cleanly for over 20 years. Bashing more pitons makes the route easier, destroys the free route and sounds horrible to the tourists on the other side of the gorge!

>

nmonteith
21/06/2004
4:44:47 PM
Original news topic is here

http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?Action=Display&ForumID=1&MessageID=7831&Replies=1

IdratherbeclimbingM9
21/06/2004
6:17:58 PM
On 21/06/2004 gfdonc wrote:
>Arr, Anthony, getting some beta for the December attempt?
>Hey A5, were you nutting or nailing?

Nutting.

My own ethic is to nut &/or hook (clean aid) wherever possible. I particularly enjoy working out how to clean aid difficult sections, by equalising marginal pieces etc. Every placement is often a textbook work of art, ... I think thats why I am so damn slow !!

It is still a bit of an ethical dilemma for me though, because I also carry birdbeaks & peckers (for hand placements similar to 'crackenups'), but also a few rurps, a couple of thin blades, and a couple of copperheads along with the hammer (generally in the pack), in case I need to 'self rescue'.
This is particularly the case if I needed to bail midway up a pitch, as I would much rather abseil off a couple of thin pitons left behind than a #3 (or smaller) RP or a hook!.
I say its a dilemma because I consider leaving the hammer at home to be a more 'committed' style of ascent, and I am talking roped-solo aid here anyway.

I am pragmatic though, and have found the hammer extremely useful for cleaning 'stuck nuts' in combination with a funkness device. Likewise if the wall was to turn to 'black ice' before my eyes I would not hesitate to use the pitons if it was the difference between hypothermia /rescue and getting myself out of that situation. [It would be a bastard though, ... doing untold numbers of 10m pitches due to the small amount of hardware I carry, and hence the need to reuse / backclean often ... ]

Ahh, the games we play, ... Neil is right though. I would be disappointed to find someone bashing their way up Ozy or Gumtree, but equally (at this stage) I have no qualms about someone bashing their way up Copperhead Road, which is equally close to Ozy but on the left side of it.
James
21/06/2004
9:04:45 PM
surely hammering pins on Copperhead Road would be even worse than hammering Ozy or Lord Gumtree. Copperhead was established as a hard aid route (as far as I know, no pins)... the only 2 ascents have been on 'heads & clean gear. Nailing up something like Copperhead cannot be 'cool'.

nmonteith
22/06/2004
9:01:49 AM
I think there is plenty of hammering on Copperhead Road from memory.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
22/06/2004
10:08:55 AM
On 21/06/2004 James wrote:
>surely hammering pins on Copperhead Road would be even worse than hammering
>Ozy or Lord Gumtree. Copperhead was established as a hard aid route (as
>far as I know, no pins)... the only 2 ascents have been on 'heads & clean
>gear. Nailing up something like Copperhead cannot be 'cool'.

Heads are not clean by my reckoning, as I believe anything that takes a hammer to place is not 'clean'.

I have not done the route but if it was done on heads, its probably because it won't take pins.

I agree with you in that it should only be done in the same or 'better' style than the 1st ascentionist.
gfdonc
22/06/2004
10:49:25 AM
Hey, great contributions and arguments. Nice to see an interesting thread for a change.

Let me set my intentions clear. I have personally been involved in clean ascents on the North wall including first hammerless ascent of Knocking on Heaven's Door (took 2 attempts, anyone else done that route?). Have also done Ozy Direct without pins but did take a hammer in case (& used it once to 'seat' a 5 RP on one move on p3). I think I own a rurp somewhere (former keychain) and a lost arrow (former nut key) but that's about it.

The question was, should aiding on pitons, in the style of the first ascent, be condoned? Most contributors think not, and personally I agree, but I also expect there will be some who think otherwise and can justify their actions.
The Copperhead road example complicates things. Maybe one day it will be done in better style, but would anyone today decry someone for hammering it?
- Steve
dalai
22/06/2004
11:01:47 AM
With the advance of equipment design over the years, hammered aid ascents should be a thing of the past and be seen on the same level as chipping if done today. I have like Neil been to Yosemite and seen the disgusting results of repeated hammered ascents.

gfdonc
22/06/2004
11:49:15 AM
I forgot one other point. Just 'cos someone's been able to free climb something doesn't mean it can be aided. Slabs for example. A small blank section on gastons.


IdratherbeclimbingM9
22/06/2004
12:29:18 PM
On 22/06/2004 gfdonc wrote:
>I forgot one other point. Just 'cos someone's been able to free climb
>something doesn't mean it can be aided. Slabs for example. A small blank
>section on gastons.

Does this mean you would condone (say, for example), bathooking a blank section if the person did not have the free ability to do it clean?

What about if the slab was wet where otherwise the climber would have had the free ability but got caught by circumstance?

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There are 55 messages in this topic.

 

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