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16-Apr-2013 9:40:15 PM
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On 16/04/2013 ashfall tuff wrote:
>At kaputar some retro bolter has shifted the sin of liability from the
>shoulders of the first ascent style.
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>end of thread for me
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whats the matter ashfall? dot let the crowd get to you, tell us what you think, as i was just getting warmed to this thread.
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16-Apr-2013 9:40:22 PM
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wtf does that even mean?
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17-Apr-2013 7:57:44 AM
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>At kaputar some retro bolter has shifted the sin of liability from the shoulders of the first ascent style.
On 16/04/2013 dan_b wrote:
>wtf does that even mean?
Tell me if I'm wrong Ashfall, but I think it means that Ashfall thinks that a retrobolter has saved todays climbers from climbing routes that he thinks were put up in dangerous style; and that if someone hurts themselves on those dangerous routes, instead of the original ascentionist being liable for that, the retrobolter is now liable. Either that or because the routes have been so dumbed down that he thinks nobody will hurt themselves at Kaputar anymore.
What is not only a sin but a blaspheme to the original ascents?
Ashfall is maccas altered ego?
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17-Apr-2013 11:16:18 AM
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I think you're right about the overall message, but wrong about the messenger. Macca is more comprehensible.
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17-Apr-2013 10:19:49 PM
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Out of all the climbing organisations out there, dangerouser cliff is the only one that spurred me to want to join.
If it can do something about this new wave of dumb climbers, I'm in.
I wonder if it would be possible to get labour to tax drills to clear the deficit?
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18-Apr-2013 12:05:54 AM
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I don't know if we can actually hold back the 'tard tide, but how many other climbing organisations are going to have strippers at the agm?
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18-Apr-2013 4:09:29 AM
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On 17/04/2013 rightarmbad wrote:
>Out of all the climbing organisations out there, dangerouser cliff is the
>only one that spurred me to want to join.
>If it can do something about this new wave of dumb climbers, I'm in.
+1, though if I were a member I'd vote the group be renamed to just "cliffs". After all that's what they were long before the retardobolters came along.
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18-Apr-2013 6:49:42 AM
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On 18/04/2013 pmonks wrote:
>On 17/04/2013 rightarmbad wrote:
>>Out of all the climbing organisations out there, dangerouser cliff is
>the
>>only one that spurred me to want to join.
>>If it can do something about this new wave of dumb climbers, I'm in.
>
>+1, though if I were a member I'd vote the group be renamed to just "cliffs".
> After all that's what they were long before the retardobolters came along.
Cliffs reminds me of the mailman from cheers;)
Cliff: Hey Doc, ah, what do you think the toughest thing to cut through is?
Frasier: Chockstones unending bull....
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18-Apr-2013 9:00:31 AM
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On 17/04/2013 rightarmbad wrote:
>If it can do something about this new wave of dumb climbers, I'm in.
I also identify more with the old wave of dumb climbers...
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27-Apr-2013 10:27:12 PM
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Just an update:
I have had some correspondence via a friend of Robin Barleys with about 40 new routes that he has done at Kaputar over the past years with a mixture of other climbers . I will put them on line via ACA/ thecrag when the weather turns bad, and I get time, and provide a link. He tried to send them to ROCK, but they of course dont publish new routes anymore.
Robin does NOT retrobolt and seems to have respected gear placements where they exist in his routes and has done trad, sport and mixed routes. He is responsible for the 2 sports routes on the left side of the Governor which is the only controversial bolting I can see at first glance. I dont know about the chiselled grades on the south side of Euglah, it certainly wasnt used on any routes I have done of his on the north side of Euglah. He isnt responsible for any of the retrobolted routes at Lindsey or added bolts eg Sago Entree.
There has been some interest in a spring offensive for de-bolting the Lindsey Rocks area if anyone wants to join in....
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3-Jun-2013 10:15:47 PM
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Hi Vanessa. You may remember we met at Bulladela earlier in the year. Those routes on the south side of euglah were bolted by Barley but climbed by Fantini. I was there in march and did a couple of them. Great additions to the crag. Regarding route descriptions, local climber Anthony Brennan has all the new route info. If you want it I can give you his e-mail address. Just contact me thro Mick johnno or mmike Moore.
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6-Jun-2013 12:46:53 PM
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Does that mean Barley being the bolter vandalised the rock by inscribing in huge numbers the grades WITH HIS DRILL?
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6-Jun-2013 9:12:59 PM
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I dont know. Havent seen the area personally. I sent a message via a friend of his that there had been major concerns about
a) retrobolting - which doesnt appear to be him
b) sports routes on the Governor
c) alleged grades chiselled in the rock- doesnt seem to have been his modus operandi anywhere else.
Looking at a trip up there in early September.
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22-Jun-2013 7:33:00 PM
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On 27/04/2013 vwills wrote:
>Just an update:
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I see that the bolts on Pork Orgy were commented on10 weeks ago by Paul Thompson on TheCrag website. Quote:-
"Hmmm, quite a few new bolts on this now. Still great technical climbing through some weird bulges and up a slab, but the notorious danger aspect of this climb is now gone."
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22-Jun-2013 7:47:38 PM
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Yes, that is mentioned much earlier in this thread . One of the Lindsey Rocks retrobolts.
It was terrifying to lead in its old state, I did it and suggested everyone else toprope it which they sensibly did. It was always easily toproped and I think should be earmarked for restoring to its former glory/insanity (there are now rings above it to make toproping even easier)
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23-Jun-2013 10:27:40 AM
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On 22/06/2013 vwills wrote:
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>It was terrifying to lead in its old state, I did it and suggested everyone
>else toprope it which they sensibly did. It was always easily toproped
>and I think should be earmarked for restoring to its former glory/insanity
>(there are now rings above it to make toproping even easier)
Agreed. At least in that form you have a choice. (Everyone knows the arguments re choosing to use or ignore bolts so I won't open that old sore here!)
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26-Apr-2016 9:21:26 PM
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Despite best intentions, I didn't get back to Kaputar until this past weekend. In the meantime I had received an old fashioned letter from Robin Barley. I have added a lot of his new routes to thecrag.com., though I haven't quite finished Euglah yet. We did some of the routes there. The routes on the shady side with the large chiselled grades were mostly very good, and make a great option for hot days. Some of the routes especially close to where the track hits Euglah have sections of pretty crap rock, even for Kaputar. He has cleaned them pretty well, but as most of them have had minimal ascents, and have been there for a decade now, expect breakage, and helmets are a must.
Over the last 2 years Robin has moved on to the east face of Lindsay which is also a good shade option.
Whoever the mystery retro bolter is on the north face of Lindsey is, their activity appears to be unabated with ugly shiny bolts extending along the north side on most of the old routes now ie salad days to Night Moves.
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18-Apr-2017 7:57:17 PM
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Back to Kaputar this Easter, I have confirmed the identity of the retro bolter of the main wall at Lindsay Rock Tops. He is Herb Brandmeier, from Queensland. He wandered past us on our one day at Lindsay and looked at our trad rack and said " that's no use to you here" so I engaged him in conversation as to why many people, including myself were upset by the blatant retro bolting/ grid bolting at Lindsay, and as of last year, the addition of 2 sports routes on the main wall of the Governor which he is also responsible for. He and his friend supported their stance as "other people liked it", and "that's the way the sport was going". My arguments about risk , judgement and the ease of top roping these routes seemed to fall on uncomprehending ears.
Also at Lindsay was the shocking sight of the grade of each bolted route painted in fairly large and visible white paint at the base of each route. Interestingly these grades were about 3 higher than the grade of the old climbs when you had to do them on trad. I don't know if this is Herb, or someone else, but it is very ugly and totally unnecessary in the era of photo topos and online community databases like thecrag. It seems so out of place in a beautiful national park.
We spent the rest of the time at Euglah, where as the original poster pointed out there are a few dodgy expansions. But that bolter Robin Barley, has been very careful not to retro bolt or impinge on existing lines, and for his new routes has largely left routes as mixed routes when good gear placements are found and has tried to camouflage many of the bolts.
Sounds like some of this conversation needs to go onto Queensland forums.
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19-Apr-2017 12:16:50 AM
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as an over bolting bumbly tell Herb phuck off. people don't like this shit. I wish I had the metal still to climb those routes in good style
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19-Apr-2017 12:21:04 AM
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also as an aside I got the Lee C recomended Milwaukee drill. Sex machine
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