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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

 Page 2 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 54
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VIC Arapiles The Northern Group (General) Kachoong Cliffs [ Arapiles Guide | Arapiles Images ] 

11:46:08 AM
> How tricky is the climb up the wall?
Not too tricky. Gear is a bit fiddly but it's there.

> How good is the rest before the roof?
It is extremely good. Remain on the face and stuff your entire forearm underneath a flake. Essentially your forearm will be vertical and your palm will be facing your face. Do not scurry onto the arête to rest, you'll just pump out there.

> What is the move at the lip like?
Once your hands are through the lip, I seem to recall it was necessary to cut loose, get a left heelhook on the left (heelhook is above lip), and rock onto it. Then stand up.

> How good a rest do you get after the lip?
Very easy ground, then scurry upwards and rightwards to a flake thing that offers pro.

2:25:14 PM
Love your enthusiasm Kentastic! hehe
3:43:04 PM
I used to monkey out the flake and then go for a R toe hook, but last time I kept a R foot high as soon as I left the rest and it worked well, much less energetic. The move where you leave the flake and grab a jug with the L hand feels like the crux to me. Then grab the higher R hand jug. Plug in a smallish green cam near the L hand jug. Reach up for the ledge with the L hand. Swing the L foot onto the first L hand jug. Release the R foot toe hook and pull up onto the ledge. Stand there and put in a couple of wires. You'll be smiling by then.

I couldn't climb anything with all this beta! The fact that so many of us can remember the moves suggests that it is indeed a special climb.

Above, tmarsh wrote:

>Onsighting it, ground up, is one of the fondest and most vivid memories of my climbing career.

but then:

>If you were so inclined, you could place a #2 Camalot in the middle of the roof. The only people I've
>ever spoken to who placed gear in the roof ended up falling on it. Based on that data, I skipped the
>placement, and made it to and over the lip.

4:24:46 PM
I recently belayed a friend on this. Impressively it was his 4th trad lead in about 12 years (the other three having been completed that morning with the likes of Agamemnon/Muldoon etc). The point is – he was well-scared – yet still managed to place 2 pieces in the roof – one being a small (bomber) Alien out on the lip. Recommended for safety if you’re really brickin’ it (as he was) – but the rope drag is utterly horrendous. It’s also worth pointing out that he had the strength to pull it off (placing gear in the roof that is) – even after foot-freeing most of it. Note: Small cams will also save you scaring yourself on the initial wall (and save you time).
4:53:26 PM
Good point re rope drag Boardlord. Steve if you place any gear in the corner (ie before roof), be sure to use really long slings.

5:00:13 PM
...and if you are going to fall off at the lip - make sure you pull your leg out of the flake first.

5:11:53 PM
can you wear some really bad lycra outfit and have a big bandolier of hexes hanging off you when you go for it. that way even if you balls it up, you've at least done it in style.
I was conned into seconding it first ever trip to araps. fell into space and leader (chadwick) had used most of the rope in the belay so couldnt lower me to the ground. had to get pulled in to belay ledge by third member of team. It was quite a cold april morning and the leader had decided for pose value to go shirtless and then complained of the cold while belaying.
great stuff.
cruised it a year or 2 later on lead with the original pin and cam in roof for gear.
moral of the story - dont even try to second or TR it.
5:29:06 PM
leader and second would be well advised to carry prussiks!!
6:24:16 PM
Hey, thanks everybody, good info.
My gym partner and I (Jen) are going to lead on separate attempts, cleaned in between. We have coerced a couple of others into seconding (hehe). The date has been set for some time. Some spectators are turning up. Could be quite a party.

Weather looks to be cold but OK.

prb is your "green cam" a green Alien? I've heard the jug at the lip will take a bigger cam (3 Friend).
Planning to take one set wires, some small cams, set of Friends to size 3, about 8 draws, couple of longer slings.

6:29:46 PM
On 6/06/2006 prb wrote:
>Above, tmarsh wrote:
>>Onsighting it, ground up, is one of the fondest and most vivid memories
>of my climbing career.
>but then:
>> (gear beta snipped)

Sheesh. Everyone's a critic! So it was a beta flash and not an onsight? Knowledge about the gear aisde, I tand by what I said back up on the previous page. It really is a route you're better off saving up until you can do it in good style rather than falling off it and turning it into a dog's breakfast.
10:12:03 PM
Sorry tmarsh, I'm feeling unusually devilish today. Must be the date.

I'm only jealous. I got all the beta I could before my first attempt and still fell off the lip. Hadn't put gear in past the roof peg and whistled (just) past the wall. Actually, if you choose to run it out past the peg and don't quite make the rest ledge, you could well hit the wall.
8:47:04 AM
On 6/06/2006 prb wrote:
>Sorry tmarsh, I'm feeling unusually devilish today. Must be the date.
>I'm only jealous. I got all the beta I could before my first attempt and
>still fell off the lip. Hadn't put gear in past the roof peg and whistled
>(just) past the wall. Actually, if you choose to run it out past the peg
>and don't quite make the rest ledge, you could well hit the wall.

You definitely come very close. You have to be ready to force your feet downwards towards the ground as the rope takes up, or you'd probably invert. Not great with a wall rushing at you.
11:32:03 AM
From memory there is a good nut (size 1,2 or 3?) placement 2/3rds up the first wall.
A no-hands rest at the top of the first wall (lean back using your head against a feature in the roof - seriously).
Use your feet well when coming out along the roof flake and you shouldn't pump out. Eyeball the good hold over the lip before commiting to the moves.
Use double ropes (and long roof slings) for zero rope drag issues.
Headwall is easy climbing, just keep your head together.
First move is hardest, for shorties like me.

Most important bit of gear for this climb is a competent photographer!
8:54:56 AM
Well, well, well........ 2 years of beta on, and the Queens birthday long weekend of 2006 is finally upon us. I have personally witnessed hours of 'thrashing around' on the 23 black/white roof at Cliff Hanger and countless hushed toned 'blow by blow', hold by hold, discussions with the explicit aim of accumulating the strength and knowledge to lead the mighty Kachoong.
Firstly, good luck Steve, Jen, Dean and Antje.
Secondly, if an old 'never was' like me can climb it, you'll cruise it.
Finally, for what it's worth, climb quickly and positively, as a tentative approach will inevitably lead to getting pumped.
Savour the moment guys, I'll be thinking of you.
9:33:54 AM
Just remember the little rock over move half way up the face, don't dick around, just rock over to the better hold.

When you done the flake variant, try the right hand wimp out variant its great fun as well.

10:17:35 AM
I'd seen the photos and thought it was going to be a runout, but in the end I thought there was loads of gear and that it was a pretty safe lead. And a great rest under the roof. I mistakingly aimed for a peg further out on the left under the roof though, and spent a while sorting some bomber gear there before I took a look out right and spied the correct peg on route...which came as a relief at the time because the roof to the left looked harder. So then I had to go back to undo the other gear as the drag would have been a killer. Later on that day we did Auto De Fe which I thought was better, but what a contrast! Managed it with a 45 mtr rope as well! Top day.
2:00:08 PM
Thanks everyone for your contributions and also hello to prb who happened to be on-site to set me straight after my initial mistake.
Here's my $0.02 worth for all future travellers. If you don’t want a blow-by-blow description, STOP reading now:

1. One thing I didn't realise (cos I'd never been for a look) is that you start out from a high ledge hence instant exposure. Great stuff.

2. The start has a new ring bolt and is easy IMHO, I thought 17. If you found it hard you may have missed a good hold out right and low. I am not tall (174cm?) but had no trouble making the reach.

3. The rest of the wall is straightforward if you stay left. There's also a line of chalked holds straight up that looked hard. A 0.5 Friend goes in part way up the wall in a horizontal break, and then I didn't stop again until I got to the roof. Extend it to reduce drag.

4. At the roof, the pin is up above the flake. I felt the need to plug a cam in before reaching up, around (and out) to clip it. Plenty of options there, I think a 1.5 friend was used. Put a 60cm sling on this if you place one.

5. Out past the pin you can reach out and get a cam (size 2 Friend) in the flake, then at full stretch you can place a smaller one in the next section of flake (I used a red Alien but something smaller also fits well). Put a 60cm sling on the pin, and extend the cams, and then rope drag was not a problem with a single rope.

6. Yes you can almost get a no-hands rest by using your head – it’s awkward but a good place to camp out and contemplate.

7. Once you start on the flake there are initially some foot placements up and right but then once out from the wall it’s hard to put much weight on the feet as there is nothing to oppose against. No point stopping to place more gear (see point 8).

8. Once you’re out about a body length you need to reach up for the next higher flake NOT continue all the way to the end of the flake as I did – the very end of the flake is for your left foot. If you come off from here you will miss the wall/arete by a safe margin (assuming you placed both cams) but it’s an exciting swing. Wave to your belayer as you swing above their head.

9. When you pull around there are several handholds to choose from, all are flat but good enough to get you around. One more easy move gets you to a no-hands rest, and a medium wire placement for security.

10. The chopped ringbolts at the top are bloody ugly – minimal attempt to patch the holes. What a pity. Yes they were not necessary in the first place (although would have made a handy lower-off) but once placed should have been left there.

11. If your second comes off in the middle of the roof they will be dangling in space of course, and both of you will be fairly helpless. If you have spectators waiting at the ledge you can potentially lower them and have someone throw a rope/long sling out to them to haul them in for a second shot. The easier and better option is to lower some of your end of the rope down to them, tied off so they can haul on it or tie a loop to stand in while you take in. Saves prussiking. Lowering all the way is not a good alternative (the deck is perhaps 20m below the start ledge).

10:43:19 AM
No worries. Congrats to you and Team gfdonc for a number of successful ascents.

Highlights of the weekend for us were leads of Cyclic, Mind Games, Quisling (with first ascentionist Peter looking on) and Blasphemy (before Simey downgrades it!). Monday I swapped Michael for the lovely Saskia and did Skink. But the real highlight was meeting a girl who could wiggle her ears (literally).

Top weekend all round. Cheers.
11:14:57 AM
Yes it was a great weekend, with the possible exception of freezing my arse off on Bard Buttress in the wind on Sunday (did Checkmate into Poppies into Eurydice, not what we intended but hey that's what happens). Not the best place to be on that day - I was dreaming of a nice sheltered sunny gully somewhere. Also did Scorpion Direct to Quo Vadis, thus making my first "full ascent" of the Mount in a day.

The quotes, though, I need the quotes!
“OH&S wouldn’t allow that flake there on the roof .. we’d be told to take that one right off” – Dean (who works in a mine) looking up at Kachoong.

“If I get this one I’m going to give up climbing” – Jen Stone, on the sharp end.
(who was back on rock on Sunday and Monday by the way - maybe she just meant "for the afternoon"?)

“This would be easy to climb if it were rotated 180 degrees” – Dean

"That sounds like my idea of a fun weekend" - Steve

11:26:13 AM
On 14/06/2006 prb wrote:
>But the real highlight was meeting a girl who could wiggle her ears
Not as entertaining as Megan’s party trick though ;)

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