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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

 Page 3 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 51
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VIC Arapiles (General) (General) (General) [ Arapiles Guide | Arapiles Images ] 

Author
Excavation at Animal Acts
Access T CliffCare
15/06/2012
3:19:06 PM
(cont)
James cultural heritage contribution to the post brings up an issue which is something we all need to be taking more note and care of. I wonít continue this cultural heritage discussion on this thread as I donít think the excavation around the Animal Acts boulder post is a great place for people to find further information on cultural heritage. It deserves itís own thread. A couple of comments though strike a chord with me

On 15/06/2012 kieranl wrote:
>On 15/06/2012 egosan wrote:
>>Given that climbers are usually doing their thing in the wilderness far
>>from any government presence. Given that many climbers are the types
>that
>>didn't play lots of team sports and choose to do a relatively solitary
>>pursuit. Given that chockstone is full of poorly socialized shut ins.
>Your
>>fear mongering about the heavy hand of government censure is probably
>not
>>the best way to motivate your audience not to mess about under overhangs.

>>Maybe try to appeal to our innate sense of right and wrong. Attempt
>perhaps
>>to re-align our moral compasses through education.
>Sol,
>James is simply telling it like it is. His earlier posts about archaeological
>implications got some snorts of derision so education about consequences
>probably seemed a more logical step.
>Don't delude yourself that what climbers get up anywhere in the Grampians
>is "far from any government presence". Parks are very aware of climbers
>activities in the Grampians, even in what we consider the remote parts
>of the Victoria Range.
>It isn't hard to find out what the situation with indigenous heritage
>is in our parks and elsewhere. Why is it up to James, another climber,
>to have to spoon-feed us information that is readily available, including
>elsewhere on this forum? Are we so precious that we can't cope with a few
>straightforward facts?

For those that really believe that they are flying under the radar with PV in many of the areas they climb at and those that are being newly developed, you need to think again. This doesnít mean that these are on some huge list of places to shut down but peopleís actions will always be taken into account further down the line, especially when climbers are asking that they self regulate. Which I might add is what land managers want us to do for the most part.
Re Sol's comments on education.
Absolutely.This is the only way forward. Too many signs and rules just saying what not to do is like a mother nagging her children with a never ending list of rules to abide by. They turn off and selective hearing goes on.
Kierans comments
Yes, people need to take it on to also hunt out information that is already out there. Having said that, more can be done in the way of educating and it is a constant job to find ways to present information that is more accessible to all. This hopefully will become a focus point of CliffCare with more time dedicated to this.

I will start a cultural heritage thread as there will be lots more to say and discuss on this over time. More recently with a discussion we had with the Grampians ranger in charge Dave Roberts last year at the Bundaleer/Rosea inspection.
New thread here: Cultural heritage and climbing
http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?Action=Display&ForumID=1&MessageID=111951&Replies=0

This is why I don't post so much - I find it impossible to contain myself to a couple of lines!

Cheers,
Tracey
kieranl
15/06/2012
10:31:10 PM
I don't want to contaminate Tracey's thread with a flame war so copied this garbage over to here.
On 15/06/2012 widewetandslippery wrote:
>in the above re parks there are a lot of coulds as opposed to ares.
>
My count is 1 "could" in that. A curious number to refer to as "a lot" unless you aren't concerned with accuracy.

>Also a good brushed chalky hold is my culture, not some 400yr old rubbish
>pile.
Do you actually have anything useful to contribute or you just find it fun to spout drivel?
ARidgley
15/06/2012
10:37:53 PM
Thanks kieran. They were my sentiments exactly, but as I am new to this forum I kept quiet. The second comment I found particularly irksome and made me question whether I wanted to be associated with this place. Thank you for showing me that this community is all I remember it to be.

Big G
15/06/2012
10:40:19 PM
>>Also a good brushed chalky hold is my culture, not some 400yr old rubbish
>>pile.
>Do you actually have anything useful to contribute or you just find it
>fun to spout drivel?

so if an aboriginal guy comes along and moves the rocks its 'cultural' and 'heritage'? but if a skinny white guy does it its vandalism? I've tried manfully to follow this thread but there is so much gibber. put the rocks back if you want, get over it. There is an obsession with trying to maintain everyhting in the world as it is now? why? sure, ;look after really significant sites if you choose but not everything can and should be preserved as it is at this precise moment in time. who decided NOW is the snapshot we want?

Miguel75
15/06/2012
11:17:39 PM
Would it be worth creating a sticky, or even a dedicated spot on the front page of Chocky for all of Tracey's (accesst) cliffcare updates? Surely her updates are a lot newer than the recent, 2006 Burnley Guide under the 'what's new' banner;)

I reckon there's plenty of important information in her threads which unfortunately gets pushed off the front page by other threads. If education is key lets keep the important info front and centre.

And thus spoke Zarathustra...

IdratherbeclimbingM9
16/06/2012
8:55:37 AM
On 15/06/2012 Miguel75 wrote:
>Would it be worth creating a sticky, or even a dedicated spot on the front
>page of Chocky for all of Tracey's (accesst) cliffcare updates? Surely
>her updates are a lot newer than the recent, 2006 Burnley Guide under the
>'what's new' banner;)
>

Are the stilettos too tight*? Had a long shift mate? ~> Check the top of the page!
From what I read they are stickies in this Crag & Route Beta area of Chocky, ... and are also regularly updated with the latest info.

... and yes, I agree that the 'What's new' on Chocky section has become rather stale date-wise!
;-)

* Looking forward to doing more climbing there with you next season ☺

Miguel75
16/06/2012
9:42:55 AM
On 16/06/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>Are the stilettos too tight*? Had a long shift mate? ~> Check the
>top of the page!
>From what I read they are stickies in this Crag & Route Beta area of Chocky,
>... and are also regularly updated with the latest info.
>;-)
>
>* Looking forward to doing more climbing there with you next season
>☺

Haha, the stilettos are great, at least for shaping my calves, but the thong's a touch tight;)

So the old saying is true: Ask and ye shall receive stickies;) In a way, I reckon this might highlight my point. I've been blundering about on Chocky for about 4 years (including lurking) and usually enter Chocky from the front page, reading the posts from there... Aside from today I don't think I've entered any forums via the forum button in the navigation pane at left (except to blindly create a new thread)...

I reckon the importance of what Accesst does should warrant prime real estate on the front page... And a payrise;)

M9, I'm keen as to get my aid on. I've leave in October if you're up for somet Buffalo action?!?



ajfclark
16/06/2012
9:48:56 AM
On 15/06/2012 Miguel75 wrote:
>2006 Burnley Guide under the 'what's new' banner;)

Actually that was updated a few months back. Maybe a year now...

IdratherbeclimbingM9
16/06/2012
9:55:08 AM
On 16/06/2012 ajfclark wrote:
>On 15/06/2012 Miguel75 wrote:
>>2006 Burnley Guide under the 'what's new' banner;)
>
>Actually that was updated a few months back. Maybe a year now...

The link on front page is for 'August 2011 Edition', ... but when I checked it (from that link), it contains all the pre-amble-blurb except the routes! I'm not sure what is going on with that scenario? Perhaps it doesn't need them, though I am not a bouldering/plastic cognoscente and wouldn't know.
kieranl
16/06/2012
9:56:49 AM
On 15/06/2012 Big G wrote:
>so if an aboriginal guy comes along and moves the rocks its 'cultural'
>and 'heritage'? but if a skinny white guy does it its vandalism?
No. A tempting simplification but it's more complex than that. Simple version - sites with evidence of past indigenous occupation.
>I've tried
>manfully to follow this thread but there is so much gibber. put the rocks
>back if you want, get over it. There is an obsession with trying to maintain
>everyhting in the world as it is now? why? sure, ;look after really significant
>sites if you choose but not everything can and should be preserved as it
>is at this precise moment in time. who decided NOW is the snapshot we want?
It's not about preserving things at this precise moment in time - it's about not destroying stuff accidentally or thoughtlessly.
"Put the rocks back" and get over it isn't the answer. The natural environments in that area of soil have been disturbed and many destroyed. Likewise if there was any indigenous material there. You can't put it back.
As climbers we are changing the environment all the time just by moving through it - but that's true of anything we do. It's the deliberate changes that we need to think carefully about - creating a new track, cleaning climbs, excavating under boulders.

ajfclark
16/06/2012
10:08:35 AM
On 16/06/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>I'm not sure what is going on with that scenario?

The routes are documented at the walls themselves.

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There are 51 messages in this topic.

 

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