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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

 Page 4 of 7. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 138
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Author
new nowra guide badly produced

Jodestar
30/05/2011
3:02:55 PM
I've used the guide, and I found it does the job well. I've been climbing 2 years and not an expert on the areas at Nowra, but I could navigate my way around the place pretty darn well.

harold
30/05/2011
3:03:07 PM
Regarding the name censorship, I know most of you don't have kids, but I'm pretty curious what you would think if you did have a 8 or 10 year old keen on climbing. Would you really be comfortable giving then the guide book with original names to browse and choose a climb? I sure wouldn't. I'm not really worried about the occasional screaming profanities when someone falls off but some of those names are pretty out there. Maybe the old names were good for a chuckle or a snigger and pretty funny at the time, but hardly worth preserving for all time. I think Rod had a good point, not everything in history is worth keeping, names of cities/countries/mountains change all the time and life goes on.

nmonteith
30/05/2011
3:31:54 PM
On 30/05/2011 harold wrote:
>Regarding the name censorship, I know most of you don't have kids, but
>I'm pretty curious what you would think if you did have a 8 or 10 year
>old keen on climbing. Would you really be comfortable giving then the guide
>book with original names to browse and choose a climb? I sure wouldn't.

Have you heard the language of kids today?! I hear plenty of Nowra style names being used on the train in the morning! Why do they have to read it? The internet has plenty of depraved filth and it should be up to the parents to police what their kids see of it.

I found it disappointing that names that have been in circulation for 20 years have suddenly been changed. A route such as Sperm Bitches is an iconic route from its day - photos and news articles splashed over climbing mags. To change it totally means that a new climber won't connect the route with its past history.

If you don't want your kids to read naughty words (which I guarantee they will see elsewhere within a few years!) then it's simply a matter of getting out a black texta and doing your own self editing.

rodw
30/05/2011
3:39:43 PM
I have an 11yo, and like all things in life I choose what she can and can not see...a climbing guidebook is no exception and I dont expect what is essentially an adult sport censored for kids. Yeah I know kids climb but what mean by adult sport, is you dont get 10-11 yo heading to a crag without adult supervision...once they dont require adult supervision at a crag, they should be able to handle a few harsh words in a guide book which they can then read without adult supervision.

nipple hair
30/05/2011
3:41:47 PM
i agree... my GF has huge boobs!!. and i have a photo of her on silver hands.. that should of been the cover shot..
GoUp!
30/05/2011
3:54:33 PM
Harold, Climbing is a form of art and the first ascentionists have expended time and effort into creating and naming their routes. If you or your kids don't like the names then may I suggest that you don't go there?
As for changing things because not everything in climbing history is worth keeping - well I could be blunt and in character with the topic and say f--- OFF. Thanks for your point of view but I don't agree one bit. You wanna write history - go and do your own routes but don't tamper with those that have gone before you.

Crickey my post just got auto-censored - what next!
chalkischeap
30/05/2011
4:13:16 PM
Rod, I appreciated using the new guide over Easter. Thanks for your efforts. Just ignore the negative stuff on here. The internet brings out the worst in some people I guess. Cheers, Mike

harold
30/05/2011
4:23:29 PM
Well I appreciate the honest replies, and I am not for censorship of all things. It sounds like people are saying they wouldn't like their 11 year old to read such names and are would prefer to self censor if they had to. And sure, when they're older who cares. To me it seems a little silly to need to censor a guidebook to my kids. Rod, I know kids need adult supervision to climb, but supervision to read the climb's name?? just seems silly. I think that climbing is a great family sport, and it would be a shame if all guidebooks were x-rated. Since its only Nowra I don't really care, but its interesting to know peoples opinions. I know back in the day climbers were a bunch of teenagers sniggering at naughty words, but I would have thought by now people had grown up and had kids themselves and a different perspective. I find it really surprising that people so precious about something so juvenile, maybe its just me and so be it.
chalkischeap
30/05/2011
4:28:06 PM
My children got hold of both guides and went looking for the rumoured naughty words. The worst ones went right over their heads but they went into fits of laughter over Shitting Bull.

I think some people are getting a bit precious about preserving history etc. These are just throwaway names.
One Day Hero
30/05/2011
4:37:22 PM
I totally support Rod's decision to censor route names, since he's the one who stands to get roasted for publishing other peoples nasty shit.

Just as Neil suggests that people could self-censor with a black texta, the lovers of filth can freely rewrite the censored names to preserve history.

I don't know why climbers are so shy about scribbling on their guidebooks, the Point Perp guide is screaming out for it. All you need to do to make it functional is assign your own unique route number to all the routes, then carry them through the topo, photo, and description...........a pretty easy fix for an otherwise unusable book.
One Day Hero
30/05/2011
4:39:52 PM
On 30/05/2011 nipple hair wrote:
>i agree... my GF has huge boobs!!. and i have a photo of her on silver
>hands.. that should of been the cover shot..

Post it up my friend, I'm sure it'll make it as the Chocky shot of the week

rodw
30/05/2011
4:40:58 PM
The better approach would have been just to put symbols inbetween the letter ie f&%k, if kids could work it out I seriously doubt the guidebook is the offender that they know the word and us adults would know what it means. Changing names completely seems a bit excessive.

I'll be honest I think its a shame TBH that names were changed rather than just using the above approach...but I wont loose any sleep over it....but then again it wasn't my route names that got changed.



plugngo
30/05/2011
4:47:25 PM
They are not "just throw away names". A rose by any other name...

Changing the name of routes just because you find it offensive is censorship and removes much of the history of a climb, however meaningless you might think it is.

If not, "Golden Showers and Group Sex" should be renamed "Golden Rainbows And Group Hugs" next Grampians guide. Pfft.

I think most people would agree that climbing is getting more and more mainstream, and that most people don't like the changes to the culture that goes along with that. This is another move in that direction.


garbie
30/05/2011
5:57:24 PM
I'm just happy "Skippy the Bush Slut" made it in. Always raises a smile when I think of watching her on TV when I was a kid and never suspecting what she was up to. I liked a lot of things about the guide, including the pics, but I think the censorship was wrong, and unnecessary anyway - you could just use a texta like Monty said if you were that worried about your kids. The route names are what makes Nowra "special", well one of the things anyway. As a reaction to the old names like "the Bard" and Bastion Butress they reflected the times, the new wave, etc etc and should live.
GoUp!
30/05/2011
6:13:17 PM
Ok, history may not be relevant to the average sport-wanker ticking projects for a couple of years before moving on to the next hedonistic pleasure. For these guys maybe a topo with lines of bolts and grades may suffice. But for some of us where climbing has become a fundamental pillar of who we are and has been for decades (and with luck I'll become a lifer), there is more to 'it' than just lines on a map and grades. Yep, back then we were having a snigger at the names. I hope since then that I have grown older, wiser and more mature. I hope this 'maturity' has also allowed me to see that history and names is a really valuable component of climbing and its culture, and makes climbing far more interesting than just your latest ascent.

And the guidebook, if it is to be more than just a topo, and perhaps even strive to be an 'authoritive' text on the subject should, in my personal opinion, be as truthful in its information as possible. Where else is this information to be stored and conveyed if not in the guidebook? How is wanting to preserve history and wanting an unbiased/uncensored record and insight into the vibe of the day and the personalities of the characters involved, juvenile preciousness???? The guide is the record of former generations for future generations - why are some in such a hurry to change and delete it and rob future generations of its precious insights?

martym
30/05/2011
6:33:47 PM
On names: I seem to remember NMonteith saying "I want Chockstone to be a nice happy place" on a similarly volatile thread.
I would extend that wish to Aussie Climbing in general. Yeah taking the piss is part of Aussie culture, but when I read ry's post: "Boong Basher" made me cringe - it brings out the worst in Nowra, and I for one have no problem with censorship in those cases. It's not heritage, it's just an example of how insensitive people were in the 80s.


On 30/05/2011 plugngo wrote:
>They are not "just throw away names". A rose by any other name...
>If not, "Golden Showers and Group Sex" should be renamed "Golden Rainbows
>And Group Hugs" next Grampians guide. Pfft.

On the other hand - I think creativity should not be disuaded - I don't think many 8 year olds would (or at least I hope they don't) know what a Golden Shower is. Imagine 10 years later the same kid thinking - "Oh, now I get it!"

I had a similar moment recently when I looked at Red Hot Chilli Peppers "Californication" and it clicked... oh the shattered innocence of youth...
climberman
30/05/2011
7:35:10 PM
On 30/05/2011 martym wrote:
>>I had a similar moment recently when I looked at Red Hot Chilli Peppers
>"Californication" and it clicked... oh the shattered innocence
>of youth...

Did you have a view on their song "Catholic Schoolgirls" or was that a bit less obscure ?

PS - guide was fine weekend before last rod and we found routes and crags first time ! Being able to access a cliff via the guidebook was somewhat novel and possibly not experienced since the Penney Wolgan guide with the painted dots on the paths.
nipple hair
30/05/2011
8:18:07 PM
i personally believe that new guides should be baned (like the carbon tax) and only guide updates should exist, but thats just me
10 pts for effort rod

gees.. climbers are so opinionated and egotistic, these days

back to the comedy

hangdog
30/05/2011
8:54:24 PM
On 30/05/2011 garbie wrote:
>I'm just happy "Skippy the Bush Slut" made it in. Always raises a smile
>when I think of watching her on TV when I was a kid and never suspecting
>what she was up to.

It wasn't Skippy i was thinking about . It was Clancy :)
cogsy
30/05/2011
9:52:56 PM
On 30/05/2011 GoUp! wrote:

for some of us where climbing has become a fundamental pillar of who
>we are and has been for decades (and with luck I'll become a lifer), there
>is more to 'it' than just lines on a map and grades. Yep, back then we
>were having a snigger at the names. I hope since then that I have grown
>older, wiser and more mature. I hope this 'maturity' has also allowed me
>to see that history and names is a really valuable component of climbing
>and its culture, and makes climbing far more interesting than just your
>latest ascent.
>

That is hilarious...you just completely missed the point of calling routes obscene names.
"Authoritive", "truthfullness", "preserve history", "precious insights".... It's Chris Baxter all over again!
Graeme Hill must be rolling around in fits of laughter at the thought that people are actually taking his route names seriously!
Please, One Day Hero, it's time to come to the rescue and take this thread back down to the gutter where it belongs!


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There are 138 messages in this topic.

 

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