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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

Poll Option Votes Graph
Yes 37
86% 
No 6
14% 

 Page 4 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 83
Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
All NSW (General) (General) (General)  

Author
Nowra Guide Book
Winston Smith
2/02/2011
11:55:41 AM
And could everybody please ensure that all naturally protected lines are retrobolted in time for the new Nowra guide so that there is no chance that trad gumbies and their ridiculous hexes and other paraphernalia will be seen/heard in the area.

All that clanking really does ruin my Nowra experience, drowning out as it does the serious climbers who need to bellow and scream to psyche up as they link and send their projects.

It also drowns out the sounds of nature: revving speedboats and people on ski biscuits shrieking in fear.

hangdog
2/02/2011
12:19:51 PM
On 2/02/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>Sorry, i just presumed you were talking about Nowra.
Sorry drifted slightly off topic but still relevant to the censoring climb names debate.I didnt have the Nowra guidebook to refer to and the Bluies example came to mind.
Had a bit of a think about the Boong crag name. Its probably best changed as these days it would be considered offensive. Changing names to reflect current attitudes is not new and if Rolf Harris had to change the original words to "tie me kangaroo down" then i reckon climb names can change.
SteveH
2/02/2011
4:25:56 PM
Just wondering how come this thread became a 'sticky'? Not that I have a problem with it, just curious...

Also curious as to whether someone has pointed Rod Young to its existence? If not, might be a good idea whilst the percentage is in my favour.
Oberon
2/02/2011
10:14:52 PM
"Had a bit of a think about the Boong crag name. Its probably best changed as these days it would be considered offensive. Changing names to reflect current attitudes is not new and if Rolf Harris had to change the original words to "tie me kangaroo down" then i reckon climb names can change."

Actually it was offensive back then too, the 1st ascentionists were not ignoramuses from the 17th century...
One Day Hero
2/02/2011
10:27:41 PM
On 2/02/2011 rodw wrote:
>You prove my point ODH (thanks)...even now there are different views on
>the what history should be bestowed on Nowra...changing names etc in guide
>books for the "good" of the public can only furthur damage it.
>
The main point which I'm proving, Rod, is that your understanding of history is akin to that of a 10yr old child. You want everything neatly boxed, fixed times for the transition from the "trad climbing epoch" to the "mixed climbing era" and then.......the eureka moment, the exact date and place where sport climbing in australia came into being.

And, of course, this bizarre reality can only be sustained by ignoring the many glaring examples which contradict your dot-to-dot model.

rodw
3/02/2011
7:44:58 AM
ODH you once again goes the "I'm right your wrong" model with mild personal attack thrown in to stake your claim......at least your history is well documented :)

I didn't say that Nowra was the first sport climbs in Australia...I was saying it was one of the first instances a crag was viewed and developed as a "sport" crag using the US/European models as inspiration....as opposed to sporadic sport routes at established crags previously i.e. an important part of Australian climbing history.

You can choose to disagree....which you often do anyway so no surprise there.
One Day Hero
3/02/2011
11:33:03 AM
This is your original sweeping statement, which you are now backing away from at a rate of knots.

On 1/02/2011 rodw wrote:
>Nowra was the new era of climbing...developed by a new breed of climbers
>removed from the general bearded conservative traditional climber before
>them. They went to the US, saw what the world of sport climbing had to
>offer and arrived back into Australia with a big bag of rawls bolts and
>a vision. A vision very much different to what Australia climbing scene
>viewed at the time as the norm.

Key developers of sport routes at Cosmic - Giles and Crunch
Key developers of sport routes at mt York - Rod and Ant
Key early developers at Thomsons - Giles and Crunch and Rod and Ant

"....a new breed of climbers....." ???????
Same farking crew had been developing sport crags for a decade!

I read somewhere (early 80's thrutch?) a critique of Cosmic by a beardstroker. It's quite neat, because he lays out all the arguments of how pussy sport climbing is before the term sport climbing was invented. Shows that "a vision very much different to what Australian climbing scene viewed at the time as the norm" appeared 10yrs before Thomsons was discovered.

If you continue to repeat the same bullshit over and over, it may become historical "fact". Doesn't make it true though!

nmonteith
3/02/2011
11:45:47 AM
But to be honest the routes that those guys bolted at Nowra were mostly partially trad and climbed Blue Mountains style aretes and faces and usually topped out. It took the younger guys to start gridding the grotty 7m high caves and installing lower-offs well below the top of the cliff.

rodw
3/02/2011
12:01:07 PM
Keep spraying ODH..whatever rocks ya boat mate,

hangdog
3/02/2011
12:01:21 PM
On 3/02/2011 rodw wrote:
>ODH you once again goes the "I'm right your wrong" model with mild personal
>attack thrown in to stake your claim......at least your history is well
>documented :)
>
>I didn't say that Nowra was the first sport climbs in Australia...I was
>saying it was one of the first instances a crag was viewed and developed
>as a "sport" crag using the US/European models as inspiration....as opposed
>to sporadic sport routes at established crags previously i.e. an important
>part of Australian climbing history.
>
>You can choose to disagree....which you often do anyway so no surprise
>there.
>
I am glad i am not the only one to cop it from this guy Apparently he is the self appointed Australian Climbing Historian and protector of ancient climbers reputations.

hangdog
3/02/2011
12:05:11 PM
On 3/02/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>But to be honest the routes that those guys bolted at Nowra were mostly
>partially trad and climbed Blue Mountains style aretes and faces and usually
>topped out. It took the younger guys to start gridding the grotty 7m high
>caves and installing lower-offs well below the top of the cliff.

Agree. No one has said that these guys invented sport climbing however they did take it another(if you could call it that) level. Their approach did change the way that bolted routes were established in other places as a result.
One Day Hero
3/02/2011
1:04:59 PM
On 3/02/2011 nmonteith wrote:
> It took the younger guys to start gridding the grotty 7m high
>caves and installing lower-offs well below the top of the cliff.

Hmmm, Angular Perspective? 1983? HB knew a thing or two about grotty 7 (12)m high caves with a chain below the top.
One Day Hero
3/02/2011
1:16:36 PM
Anyway, you can't have the "Thomson's was the first true sport crag in the country...." argument, and then follow it up with.....

On 3/02/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>But to be honest the routes that those guys bolted at Nowra were mostly
>partially trad and climbed Blue Mountains style aretes and faces and usually
>topped out.

Either Neil is batting on my team, or the other team is fuched!

Anyway, Rod's taken his bat and gone home, Hangdog is having a dummy spit to the ref..........I'm off to the pub to celebrate a resounding win for my version of history!
widewetandslippery
3/02/2011
1:26:18 PM
ODH you've got more chance of getting me worked up than rodw. I' impressed that you've chosen a challenging project.

rodw
3/02/2011
1:26:33 PM
Lol ODH...Im still around just know from experience to bother arguing with ya...have a beer for me.
ry
20/04/2011
11:20:56 AM
Regarding Boong Crag, it was never re-named anything. It is a worthless short piece of rock below Hospital Rocks a bit, and just a bit further up river. It was not worth including in a guidebook!

Now I will deviate off the subjct slightly, like all good threads!

The original climbing at Ben's Walk, inside the showgrounds was not included, even though it was perhaps worthwhile, because it is now illegal to climb in that little area and will be enforced by Nowra council rangers. When they asked for submissions on climbing within Council controlled lands around Nowra in the '90s (which include T.P. , Grotto areas and Bomaderry Creek areas) they had already stated that the climbing in the Ben's Walk area would be closed because it was a gazetted Tourist Track, no-one objected. Only two climbers sent submissions to Council, including myself, before they wrote up their climbing policies, even though it was well publicised and climbers were aware of the need to put in submissions, so the closure of Ben's Walk is a done deal.
Shoalhaven Council takes a totally hands-off approach as long as we self regulate, keep our climbing off their tourist tracks and maintain our own anchors. They don't want any legal liability coming back at them, but are happy for climbers to enjoy Nowra without creating any risk to other users. The ideal land manager attitude for climbers, so don't piss them off!
Climb.org.au has routes listed in the walk-down track to The Grotto (20m left of Rockshox) that have been added in the last recent few years that are not doing the climbing community a service by existing, let alone listing on a website. He was aware of council regulations and bolted them anyway, and added his ascent details!
Thankfully the culprit is now focussing his attentions out in the New Nowra areas now.
Possible thecrag.com and climb.org.au list routes at Ben's Walk, (I haven't looked there to check) for "historical" purposes, but aren't doing climbing a service by listing them and perhaps encouraging people to climb there.
CheersRod Young

BundyBear
20/04/2011
11:37:33 AM
Cant find Bens Walk on the climb.org.au but it's on thecrag.com. I think both sites are open for updates, so make changes if necessary.
maxdacat
20/04/2011
11:56:12 AM
Can't quite remember but is Filipino Fur Burger one of the route names there? If so I would hate for that gem to be renamed.
widewetandslippery
3/05/2011
12:01:54 PM
I haven't seen the new guide but I am lead to believe there are many names that have been changed. Names such as Sperm Bitches, Dick me Raw, Dickman and Throbbin have been RAPED.

There is no crag called PC. Its called Planet c--k.

Is this true?

If your worried about what your children read moniter what they read. Don't change history to suite.

Vail the great man Osama Bin Laden.
DanMac
3/05/2011
2:58:22 PM
On 3/05/2011 widewetandslippery wrote:
>I haven't seen the new guide but I am lead to believe there are many names
>that have been changed. *snip*
>Is this true?

Yep... I made a sad when I saw "Murdoch the Horse" and "Spinning Blades". Apparently these are the full titles now :o(

 Page 4 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 83
There are 83 messages in this topic.

 

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