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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

 Page 2 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 55
Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
VIC Grampians Northern Mt Stapylton Amphitheatre Taipan Wall [ Taipan Images ] 

Author
Seventh Pillar ***18 M2

Organ Pipe
7/05/2007
6:16:21 PM
Hi Guys,

I've got a couple of questions about this climb for the masses:

1) What's the latest on the condition of the bolt ladder? I see from this thread that the original beta was from 2005. Has the condition of the bolts changed much in this time?

2) My rack is bountiful in the wire, hex, cam, sling, quickdraw, ascender, rope department, but don't have any specialised aid gear. I'd buy 4 aiders and a couple more bot plates prior to an attempt of SP, but would I need any extra stuff climb? How has everyone found it gear wise?

3) The stick clip! how big stick do I need to make the clip? I see from the previous commentary that a communal stick sits up there on a ledge, but I'd hate to get there and find no stick!

nmonteith
7/05/2007
6:20:01 PM
On 7/05/2007 Organ Pipe wrote:
>1) What's the latest on the condition of the bolt ladder? I see from this
>thread that the original beta was from 2005. Has the condition of the bolts
>changed much in this time?

The bolt ladder is mostly mank, but i replaced two out of the 8 or so bolts a few years back. Using
wires over the heads of the mank bolts will be better as they protrude a fair bit.

>2) My rack is bountiful in the wire, hex, cam, sling, quickdraw, ascender,
>rope department, but don't have any specialised aid gear. I'd buy 4 aiders
>and a couple more bot plates prior to an attempt of SP, but would I need
>any extra stuff climb? How has everyone found it gear wise?

You certainly need RPs for the crux on the 2nd pitch. Everything down to zero size. No hooks or other
aid specific gear required. You obviously need daisy chains!

>3) The stick clip! how big stick do I need to make the clip?

About 2m is fine.

muki
7/05/2007
6:46:16 PM
No need for aiders or etriers, 3x zero is good or 3x one RP's and lots of 1m slings to step up on, at least
as many as there are bolts on the ladder!
you can make a small ladder from some webbing and just knot some steps into it, take this with you bolt
to bolt and leave the 1m slings for the second to step up on.
I would have given it 18 M1 as none of the gear was at all dodgy, the RP's are small but bomber.
Have fun this is an exellent climb and very enjoyable!

Organ Pipe
7/05/2007
8:55:14 PM
Thanks heaps for the quick response Neil and BP.

Much appreciated!

nmonteith
8/05/2007
8:47:12 AM
On 7/05/2007 bomber pro wrote:
>No need for aiders or etriers,

Depending on your free climbing ability will depend on how much 'aid' specific gear you take up. If you
are only comfortable freeing grade 18ish at ground level then then you might be aiding quite a bit of the
route, thus you'll want a decent set of etriers (and daisys).

>I would have given it 18 M1 as none of the gear was at all dodgy,

I had a (very light) friend who managed to strip 4 RPs from that seam in a fall. I wouldn't call it A1.
gfdonc
8/05/2007
9:57:29 AM
On 7/05/2007 nmonteith wrote:
>The bolt ladder is mostly mank

Speaking with Mike Stone (he was at Araps the other weekend) he said he originally placed one of every 3 bolts at a decent depth, good enough to take a fall. On top of this Neil has replaced two bolts with new SS FH's. The bolt ladder is very straightforward aiding, and it's a clean fall if the worst happens.

>>2) My rack is bountiful in the wire, hex, cam, sling, quickdraw, ascender,
>>rope department, but don't have any specialised aid gear. I'd buy 4 aiders
>>and a couple more bot plates prior to an attempt of SP, but would I need
>>any extra stuff climb? How has everyone found it gear wise?
You need 4 aiders, plus ideally the second needs a pair for jumaring (but you could improvise with cord loops).
As mentioned earlier tie-offs can be used on the bolts, but I did end up using bolt plates mostly.
I don't recall we used anything smaller than 2RP on the 2nd pitch. Depends on your reach/placements.
I never use daisy chains when aiding (even though I own some). I admit I'm a bit eccentric in this regard.
A fifi hook is invaluable though.

>>3) The stick clip! how big stick do I need to make the clip?
>
>About 2m is fine.
Yep, and I suspect earlier comments on the thread that you could stretch up and clip the bolt from aid might be correct - but unproven.
This bolt needs a loop of tat hanging from it to make the stick redundant IMHO.

Macciza
8/05/2007
10:23:00 AM
On straight forward aid ie bolt ladders, 2 aiders would be all you would need, though a couple of slings
would also be fine. You will only need to stand in them to hook your fifi anyway. Into daisy or biner.

I generally use 2 aiders on easier stuff, add 2 x 1/2 aiders - 2nd & 3rd step only for stuff a bit trickier and
use 3 - 4 and beyond only on the real hard stuff. I use daisy's mostly unless it is only a move or two.
Not sure about the stick - I don't use them - but I don't know the route either. May be just a real tricky
topstep move with some doubled wires ready - or try lassooing with sling, cord or funkness. Or a hook?

Please don't leave tat as it is messy and can speed up rusting of bolts also. Have fun . . .
gfdonc
8/05/2007
1:53:57 PM
Oh, and double ropes are highly recommended. Rope drag on p2 can be bad. You can do as Neil did and split p2 into two pitches, but even then it wanders enough to justify two ropes. Use one up the initial corner then clip the bolt with the second, use your first rope again for the final corner.
james
9/05/2007
12:08:12 AM
I didn't need the stick to clip the bolt - just take a real deep breath & stretch!

Organ Pipe
9/05/2007
10:22:35 AM
On 7/05/2007 nmonteith wrote:
>Using wires over the heads of the mank bolts will be better as they protrude
>a fair bit.

Ahhh, yes I've done this before once. I'll keep that in mind. Maybe I can get away with the 3 bolt plates that I currently own.


On 7/05/2007 bomber pro wrote:
>...of 1m slings to step up on, at least
>as many as there are bolts on the ladder!
>you can make a small ladder from some webbing and just knot some steps
>into it, take this with you bolt
>to bolt and leave the 1m slings for the second to step up on.

Again great idea. I do have a fair bit of tubular sling material that I could tie into such a ladder actually + a heap of 1m slings. I'll definetly try the makeshift aider out of sling idea.


On 8/05/2007 gfdonc wrote:
>As mentioned earlier tie-offs can be used on the bolts, but I did end
>up using bolt plates mostly.

This brings me to another question: After readign the original thread right through, it seems as though a tie off is appropriate if the bolt hangs out from the wall a bit and you want your wire / bolt plate to sit close to the rock to minimise leverage. Is this really as simple as knotting some sling around the bolt shaft between the head and the plate to act as a 'spacer' of sorts? I would have thought that if the bolt is indeed droopy, or bent in such a way as to allow the plate to slide away from the wall towards the head, then during a fall, and sling spacer would get crushed, and the plate move out anyway?
Am I way off here? Does anyone have a picture of 'tie offs' that they would be willing to share?


On 9/05/2007 james wrote:
>I didn't need the stick to clip the bolt - just take a real deep breath
>& stretch!

I'm 6 foot 4 so hopefully, I'll be able to clip without the stick. However, for those that have climbed SP recently? is the stick still up there? If not I'd take one up and leave it behind.


Also, one last question for you all:
Many accounts of this climb talk about an early morning start, and early evening finish. Has anyone ever split it into 2 days? Begin at lunch time, sleep out, then complete at leasure? ie. is there a big enough ledge for a night out? The topo's seem to suggest not, but you never know!


Thanks again for the valuable info and tips.
For all the trolling, spam, arguing, etc that Chockstone sees, I'm still pumped by the wealth of expertice and advice you guys provide. Cheers!
kieranl
9/05/2007
12:46:19 PM
On 9/05/2007 Organ Pipe wrote:
>This brings me to another question: After readign the original thread
>right through, it seems as though a tie off is appropriate if the bolt
>hangs out from the wall a bit and you want your wire / bolt plate to sit
>close to the rock to minimise leverage. Is this really as simple as knotting
>some sling around the bolt shaft between the head and the plate to act
>as a 'spacer' of sorts? I would have thought that if the bolt is indeed
>droopy, or bent in such a way as to allow the plate to slide away from
>the wall towards the head, then during a fall, and sling spacer would get
>crushed, and the plate move out anyway?
The knot aren't a spacer as many of the bolts do stick out a long way, the idea is to cinch the knot hard and hold the bolt plate against the rock. In a fall the hanger on a droopy bolt might move out towards the end but I don't think it's anything you can do much about.
>Am I way off here? Does anyone have a picture of 'tie offs' that they
>would be willing to share?
I haven't got any pictures but a girth hitch works well. The second should carry a pocket knife to cut off any tie-offs that prove impossible to unknot.
>
>
>On 9/05/2007 james wrote:
>>I didn't need the stick to clip the bolt - just take a real deep breath
>>& stretch!
>
>I'm 6 foot 4 so hopefully, I'll be able to clip without the stick. However,
>for those that have climbed SP recently? is the stick still up there? If
>not I'd take one up and leave it behind.
>
The bolt was originally placed by Carrigan to clip by hand.
>
>Also, one last question for you all:
>Many accounts of this climb talk about an early morning start, and early
>evening finish. Has anyone ever split it into 2 days? Begin at lunch time,
>sleep out, then complete at leasure? ie. is there a big enough ledge for
>a night out? The topo's seem to suggest not, but you never know!
>
Many ascents have split the climb over two days but usually inadvertently and "spent the night waiting for dawn, which came, and food, water and sleeping bags which didn't" Gledhill Northern Grampians Guide

nmonteith
9/05/2007
12:49:31 PM
>On 9/05/2007 Organ Pipe wrote:
>ie. is there a big enough ledge
>for
>>a night out?

no, unless you enjoy the feeling of being stuck in a coffin.
gfdonc
9/05/2007
1:01:37 PM
>>Using wires over the heads ..
>.. Maybe I can get away with the 3 bolt plates that I currently own.

Bear in mind that aiding from a wire puts you a few cm lower than a bracket. Sometimes this makes a difference. It shouldn't cause you a problem depending on the top step of your aiders, & you can save the brackets for any widely-spaced bolts.

>This brings me to another question: After readign the original thread
>right through, it seems as though a tie off is appropriate if the bolt
>hangs out from the wall a bit and you want your wire / bolt plate to sit
>close to the rock to minimise leverage. Is this really as simple as [snip]

Doubt I can help with an existing picture. The bolt ladder is pictured here
and here
(& pic 1251 shows the stick-clip if you need it)

The 7th pillar bolts didn't suit tie-offs as much as others, because a few bolts slope downwards, and the tie-off loop tended to slide down to the head, which tends not to encourage a sense of security.
In any case 10mm climbing webbing is hard to come by these days (sniff).
I found a bracket would sit on the bolt shaft against the wall, at least until you unweighted it, & found that quicker and more secure (in that at least I knew the bracket wasn't going to fall off entirely.
Yes some standard 25mm webbing tied-off in front of the bracket would help matters BUT - enough reassurances. This is a bolt ladder. It's easy. You won't die. Just go and climb it. Step up, clip the next one, keep moving. Wires, brackets, slings, whatever - you'll get up it. The tricky part is getting off the last bolt (which is new) onto the belay.
Oh, one tip for inexperienced aid climbers: make sure you clip the bolt as pro as well as standing up on it. I've seen mistakes made where climbers clip the bolt, clip their aiders in, step up, reach the next one, then unclip the etriers without remembering to clip a second draw+biner to the rope.

>Has anyone ever split it into 2 days? Begin at lunch time,

If you wanted the experience, the ledge at the start of the last pitch (after the traverse) would be big enough to bivvy on. You're only one pitch of freeclimbing (gr 17-18) from the top then. However, aiding can be slow, so especially at this time of year, starting at lunchtime might not get you to the bivvy ledge by dark.

Bivvying in the cramped slot at the end of pitch 2 would be an 'experience' - http://staff.data.com.au/stoal/MtStapyltonDecember2005/img_1261jpg.html
But please, don't let me deter you, go ahead and try it and let me know what you thought. ;-)

nmonteith
9/05/2007
1:17:09 PM
Have you the great story from Michael Stone in CRUX issue #2? There is a photo of the bolt ladder as
well.

The route is short enough that you can easily aid the first two pitches, rap back to the ground, sleep the
night at the base of the wall, then jumar back up your fixed ropes the next day to finish the last 2 pitches.


WM
9/05/2007
1:23:18 PM
On 9/05/2007 Organ Pipe wrote:
>Does anyone have a picture of 'tie offs' that they would be willing to share?

See this thread.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
9/05/2007
1:45:56 PM
Good link (& pic) WM. Good to see double tie-offs used.

kieranl wrote;
>I haven't got any pictures but a girth hitch works well. The second should carry a pocket knife to cut off any tie-offs that prove impossible to unknot.

Loaded girth hitches (on bolts), can be a bugger for two reasons.
1. They can 'stretch' thus not being snug ~> and as a consequence slip towards the droopy end of the bolt, but this depends on the material used and weight applied.
2. If you get them tight-as, then like kieranl says, they'll likely need cutting off due to inability to loosen them.

I find using prussik cord style hero loops, clove hitched onto long droopy bolts a better option, due to 'filling the space better and being easier to untie.

gfdonc has hit the spot with his remark;
>This is a bolt ladder. >It's easy. >You won't die. >Just go and climb it. >Step up, clip the next one, keep moving. >Wires, brackets, slings, whatever - you'll get up it.

Organ Pipe
9/05/2007
2:18:42 PM
On 9/05/2007 WM wrote:
>See this thread.
>

sorry WM, us non safe cliffs vic members can't access this thread (we get a login page instead).

IdratherbeclimbingM9
9/05/2007
2:29:06 PM
I may be wrong (as it has been a while since I did it), but I think that the top of that Forum topic tells how to 'register' to enable access to threads in it.

Post edit.
I just logged off and accessed SCV thread/s & got the following message ...

>Members Only Access
>Login and group membership required.
>To join this group contact info@safercliffs.org.

It is easy and painless ~ the Mods just need to know who the 'real' people are that access the site.
... am surprised that you have not already come up against this before OP?
:)

Macciza
9/05/2007
2:38:52 PM
On 9/05/2007 Organ Pipe wrote:
>
>sorry WM, us non safe cliffs vic members can't access this thread
This is the pic




IdratherbeclimbingM9
9/05/2007
2:48:19 PM
Though the thread is still worth accessing and reading by him as it is relevant to OP's enquiries...

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