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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

 Page 2 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 56
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Via Ferrata in Chamonix
martym
18/02/2011
2:27:03 AM
On 17/02/2011 ozone wrote:
>Heading to Chamonix in a couple of weeks and have some questions. Plan
>on doing some Via Ferrata and know little about it.

This time of year I don't think you'll get on any via ferrata stuff - too slippery.
Google Weather: Max: 7C | Min: -8C


>Alternatively, what's the best options for a tight ass blue mountains
>climber who's never done much snow/ice stuff before but is keen as to do
>something rad while I'm there?
Pay through the nose and get someone to guide you up some mountains.
Though if you're new to the alps, just go hiking - if the weather's right - Chamonix will blow your nuts off.

>Best camping spots in Chamonix on the cheap?
See above weather report - if you've got the right tent & sleeping bag, finding a place to camp around Le Gaillands isn't too hard (though prohibited)
Alternatively, you can find some hotels outside the centre for 20-25Euro

- Realistically, Chamonix is ski town until May. Learn to ski!

trog
18/02/2011
2:58:01 AM
Yep has been a crap Jan/Feb in the Alps at least for water ice and snow (Hiked up a few chairs worth of height at a resort in Austria recently - it looked worse than Perisher normally does.)... but it is getting cold again (*crosses fingers*), and more snow was being predicted for the western side soon.

If no new snow comes in though it should be great for more Alpine routes, or rock routes in the sun.
Olbert
18/02/2011
9:07:38 AM
On 18/02/2011 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 17/02/2011 Olbert wrote:
>>
>>Because of these two factors you wouldnt get anywhere near a 500FF in
>>a 500m fall onto a 1m rope. I have no idea by how much less but it would
>>be a significant amount...at a hugely rough guess maybe a FF of ~100
>-
>>250
>
>Utterly pointless navel-gazing!
>
Yup, I like navel gazing

ambyeok
18/02/2011
10:31:52 AM
Im still curious if fall arresters are any good after the first fall?

Andrew_M
18/02/2011
10:41:31 AM
On 18/02/2011 ambyeok wrote:
>Im still curious if fall arresters are any good after the first fall?

Depends on the design. Some have a system that feeds slack through a belay plate type doodad. I think you can put a new bit of rope in and reuse. The other type absorbs energy using a yates screamer type system where stitches are ripped - obviously not so reusable.

You probably wouldn't want to fall twice on the same VF using the same lanyard.

Eduardo Slabofvic
18/02/2011
10:54:10 AM
On 18/02/2011 davidn wrote:
>In all this navel-gazing still no one's told me what actual force it would
>exert on the body,

I've never done any in Chamonix, but the ones I've done in the Dolomites, you should be more concerned with having all the protruding chunks of rusty metal piercing your body during a fall than how many newtons are going to get transferred onto your nads.
ozone
18/02/2011
11:15:55 AM
Right.... cheers for all the info. Although the ff stuff is intensely intruiging, since the consensus is that via ferrata's not gonna be a goer, might fashion up some makeshift garbage bag taboggan and gun down mont blanc. Or suck it up and do the proper ski thing.
Maybe font is a good option.... all in the footwork I hear, so busted shoulder shouldn't be a prob.
Thanks again for all the hints people. I've jotted down some good notes. (Mental note- never take a 500 metre fall on one metre of rope, unless confident that I can muster up enough wind resistence)
Olbert
18/02/2011
1:18:35 PM
On 18/02/2011 davidn wrote:
>In all this navel-gazing still no one's told me what actual force it would
>exert on the body, and whether there's a linear relationship between force
>and FF as FF increases over 2.
>
>Cmon ODH!

What!? I provided good info too!!

There is pretty much a direct relationship between the impact force on the climber (and the rope/system connecting the climber to whatever it is they are attached to) and the FF. Thats the whole point of FF.

Whether there is a direct relationship between the ratio of length of fall and length of rope, and FF for FF > 2 is another question. The approximately linear relationship for FF < 2 works because forces such as air resistance are negligible. I would think this holds for most reasonable FF > 2, so long as you dont get ridiculous - ie 500m fall onto a 1m rope.
ozone
18/02/2011
1:24:47 PM
the reason font was sidelined was because it would be too traumatic to be in bouldering heaven with a busted shoulder. It would only equal further busting the shoulder. Discipline. And whoever hurt themselves snowboarding anyway....
One Day Hero
19/02/2011
2:45:18 AM
On 18/02/2011 davidn wrote:
>Plus, any physicist of good standing
>would have produced a line graph quick smart to show me the relationship
>between force and fall factor and at what point (FF3? FF5? FF50?) impact
>force begins to tail off. So do it properly, young man, or defer to Patto
>and stop calling me names you learnt in high school!

I also gave you a serious answer; your question is farking retarded!

If you have any more than about fall factor 5, you can abandon all hope of being in one piece. Assuming a 1m lanyard of dynamic rope, with no cunning device - if you fall more than 5m onto it, you'll be so splattered to bits that you won't care about the physics!

I actually wouldn't trust the stupid shock-absorbers with a 5m fall either, and make sure to clip rungs on extended vertical sections...........and/or never fall off (its a farking ladder, after all)

Hey, I recently jigged up my own device for some dodgy ferrataing (no way am I splashing $30 for a piece of non-climbing climbing gear)........do you wanna see pictures so you can all rate my sketchyness?

Pat
19/02/2011
12:26:07 PM
500 meter fall onto a 1 meter rope. Are you base jumping with a one meter cowtail? I would pay to see that. Pity if you missed the clip.

Butters81
19/02/2011
2:19:37 PM
On 19/02/2011 One Day Hero wrote:
>Hey, I recently jigged up my own device for some dodgy ferrataing (no
>way am I splashing $30 for a piece of non-climbing climbing gear)........do
>you wanna see pictures so you can all rate my sketchyness?

Photos please
jgoding
20/02/2011
12:11:10 PM
Howdy - I've got a (quite good) guide to via ferrata in France that I'd be happy to loan/sell if you want it. (I live in Brunswick, Melbourne).
teerex
21/02/2011
11:33:21 AM
On 18/02/2011 ambyeok wrote:
>Im still curious if fall arresters are any good after the first fall?

I did some Via Ferrata in Zermatt last summer, it was a hoot. My list of handy hints for anyone considering it:

Fall arresters (locals call them lanyards) are single use only, if you take a decent fall half way along your Via Ferrata route, I don't know what you do from that point, but your lanyard is buggered.

The ski shops in the resort rent the lanards, we just took our harnesses. I would only use the proper lanyards designed for the job, not a sling or a short piece of dynamic rope. At plenty of points the fixed cable on our routes ran vertically, if you took a fall from just under an anchor on a vertical section, you would be pulling some big G's when you hit the next anchor.

You don't want to do Via Ferrata in your rock shoes, standing on the steel rungs would get pretty uncomfortable after a while. A light hiking boot is the go.

We passed through Chamonix on the same trip, there are some epic climbs, and I noticed a beginner's area just out of the village, if there was some Via Ferrata at lower altitudes you might be OK.
kieranl
21/02/2011
12:28:34 PM
Richard Delaney posted this link http://www.irata.org/pdf_word/lanyardtest.pdf on another thread last year. As I read it, you are better off making your own lanyard out of dynamic rope with the right knots. Someone please correct me if I am mistaken.

Andrew_M
21/02/2011
12:57:40 PM
On 21/02/2011 kieranl wrote:
>As I read it, you are better off making yourown lanyard out of dynamic rope with the right knots.

Yes, for a cow's tail for normal climbing/caving use but no for via ferratas. VF fall arrestors are completely different beasts. The commercial lanyard they tested had no shock absorbing capacity whereas via ferrata lanyards (which they didn't test) have shock absorbing capacity.

ajfclark
21/02/2011
1:07:46 PM
On 21/02/2011 davidn wrote:
>Nor does it answer why someone does via ferrata over fontainbleau.

But perhaps this did?

On 18/02/2011 ozone wrote:
>the reason font was sidelined was because it would be too traumatic to
>be in bouldering heaven with a busted shoulder. It would only equal further
>busting the shoulder. Discipline. And whoever hurt themselves snowboarding
>anyway....
widewetandslippery
21/02/2011
1:10:18 PM
I have factor 2 fallen on a 60cm lanyard of dynamic rope. I blame it for my sore kidneys. The level of shock absorbance a short length of dynamic rope is minute. I really believe in this circumstance the use of static rope would not be noticed. Shock absorbance with rope lanyards in short high impact falls comes from knots cinching tight and your body going squishy in your harness. I believe in rope access the use of dynamic rope lanyards is an unscientific rockclimber hangover. The sliding rope thingys petzal and kong (I know others make them but these are the ones I've seen) look the best. A short clip in rope lanyard is a good idea as well for having a bludge, wait, drink, pee etc.

Also commercial via ferrata lanyards often have a different clipping device to a crab. These things are easier to "lock" one handed and are made to stand impact from all directions unlike a standard screw gate.

ajfclark
21/02/2011
1:14:56 PM
I do find people not reading really frustrating. I mean you asked the question and a couple of posts later the guy answered and you didn't bother reading it? That seems a little rude to me.

ajfclark
21/02/2011
1:26:03 PM
Seriously? Wow. That is lazy and inefficient. Why'd you bother asking a question if you weren't actually going to bother to read the replies?

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There are 56 messages in this topic.

 

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