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Crag & Route Beta

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Jenny Wren


Pat

12-Nov-2010
5:13:41 PM

Simey would have been better of lying to us, giving it a new name - (Steel Jenny?) and calling it a link up. Maybe most of us would have been none the wiser.


Chuck Norris

12-Nov-2010
10:59:48 PM

That would be pretty stupid. Simey rebolted a route and should be able to explain what and why he did so (which he has).

As far as I see it:
1. crap gear should be replaced or removed (if modern gear makes it redundant), and moved if it was in a stupid position in the first place. Simey did this and good on him for doing so.

2. adding bolts to existing climbs is occasionally justified. This will always be a grey area with differing viewpoints, and also depend on the specifics of each situation.

In between the slinging both robertsonja and simey both made valid points. I cant remember a thing about the climb (and yes I have done it), but from the sounds of it in this situation rebolting this seems overall positive.

Perhaps an extreme antibolter could make a strong argument about one of the bolts, but it certainly doesn't warrant a chopping now that its been done (actually the rap station is debateable too).

The people that blindly say "yeh goodonya simey" are just as stupid as the people who blindly say "yeh chop the buggers", which is just as stupid as suggesting to "pretend" it was a new route".

simey

12-Nov-2010
11:44:30 PM

On 12/11/2010 stugang wrote:
>In between the slinging both robertsonja and simey both made valid points.
Did robertsonja make a valid point about Jenny Wren? You might have to remind me what it was, because plenty of what he says is not based on any actual experience of climbing the route. He explained that trad routes can follow weaknesses dictated by pro (I'm glad he pointed that out because I must have missed that in my 25 years of climbing). However his comments mean little on a route where you want to climb the arete all the way but where the poor pro forces you to escape the line a number of times and you top out feeling a little frustrated at the whole experience.

I don't mind people questioning my bolting actions at Araps (like you have done) but I find robertsonja's anti-bolt fundamentalism wears pretty thin after a while. Even when he has a worthwhile perspective he undermines his own position with dogma and rhetoric.

>Perhaps an extreme antibolter could make a strong argument about one of
>the bolts, but it certainly doesn't warrant a chopping now that its been
>done (actually the rap station is debateable too).

The rap station wasn't put in purely to service this route, but to service the area. Given that the only rap station at the top of the Bluffs is directly over Missing Link then a second rap anchor allows you to avoid climbers already on Missing Link. The position of the new anchor lets you rap on a 50m rope back to Blockbuster Ledge (from which you can rap again to Flinders Lane if you want). The new anchor is also ideal if you want to do the other mega classics that start from Blockbuster Ledge.


Pat

13-Nov-2010
10:19:15 AM

I agree with most of what you said stugang. It was tongue in cheek because of all the static flying around, which I think you touched on.

Wendy

13-Nov-2010
1:33:57 PM

Isn't it time someone posted this drama anonymously on some international forums?


Pat

13-Nov-2010
2:46:07 PM

Or asked a question about what are the best cams ....

robertsonja

13-Nov-2010
4:11:08 PM

On 11/11/2010 stugang wrote:
>Marginality of 5 v 4 bolts - fair enough.

Incorrect - there are at least 7 new and shiny bolts.

robertsonja

13-Nov-2010
4:56:42 PM

On 12/11/2010 stugang wrote:

>That would be pretty stupid. Simey rebolted a route and should be able
>to explain what and why he did so (which he has).

Incorrect - this climb has not be rebolted. Jenny Wren has been retro bolted. An explanation of what and why is a very different entity to just cause and justification.

>As far as I see it:
>1. crap gear should be replaced or removed (if modern gear makes it redundant),
>and moved if it was in a stupid position in the first place. Simey did
>this and good on him for doing so.

Incorrect - No bolt or fixed gear has been replaced on this route. No bolt or fixed gear has been moved this on this route. Not really sure if you understand what has been done at all.

>Perhaps an extreme antibolter could make a strong argument about one of
>the bolts, but it certainly doesn't warrant a chopping now that its been
>done (actually the rap station is debateable too).

A strong arguement proceeded with not warranting chopping because it has already been bolted?

Simey has already agreed that he would be happy to chop these bolts, apparently he's bring his camera.

widewetandslippery

13-Nov-2010
6:36:44 PM

On 13/11/2010 davidn wrote:
>Bolts breed? Sweet.

you are wierd man. do you have babies with the ones with shafts or do you do U's coz they have 2 holes?


Chuck Norris

14-Nov-2010
11:00:57 AM

Sorry pat - I did realise you were probably tongue in cheek but pretended otherwise to make a point.

One Day Hero

15-Nov-2010
12:03:49 PM

On 12/11/2010 simey wrote:
>The rap station wasn't put in purely to service this route, but to service
>the area. Given that the only rap station at the top of the Bluffs is directly
>over Missing Link then a second rap anchor allows you to avoid climbers
>already on Missing Link. The position of the new anchor lets you rap on
>a 50m rope back to Blockbuster Ledge (from which you can rap again to Flinders
>Lane if you want). The new anchor is also ideal if you want to do the other
>mega classics that start from Blockbuster Ledge.
>
I'm not a huge fan of having lower offs all over the shop at araps. Whats wrong with building your own rap anchor, if you're just going to climb back up to it anyway?

I guess a second fixed rap off Bluff Major is kind of useful though, I've had some total ballbag spew at me for rapping over him on Missing Link, even though he was post-crux and fuching creeping like a geriatric. "yep, I want to spend 45 minutes waiting for you to lead 15m of grade 14, coz thats what makes climbing fun...........numbnuts!"

There are 51 messages in this topic.