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Camera Film - Bulk Buy and Information


mousey

26-Apr-2004
10:34:07 PM

every time anyone mentions photography, multiple no-cluers jump in their 'yeh velvia 50 is what all the pros use mmm'. i know that, so i don't need anyone to say it again...
ok sorry now to the point (i just hate it when the replies completly stray from the question because nohopers want to put in their 2c)...

since fujichrome (or ALL slides in aussie for that matter) is so expensive ive been looking at different online sohpping options- they're great, charging $4ish US max. for the good stuff (im after velvia 50, provia 200/400, and kodak e100sw, plus a range of studio stuff ie. tungsten, portrait etc.) but then it costs some $40US to ship 5 rolls of film!!! are there any recommendations for cheap film sourcing, or anyone who wants to put in a joint order to share shipping costs?


nmonteith

26-Apr-2004
11:07:37 PM

Will the film be ok shipped OS? Wouldn't it get all hot and bothered if left in a shipping container for weeks at a time? Since we are instructed to keep it in the fridge until the last minute I would be a little doubtful of it arriving safely by mail.

I woudl be keen to chip in some cash-ola for a bulk purchase if you find a good deal.


trent

27-Apr-2004
2:27:43 PM

To quote Mighty Mouse from Crag X forum
"also just got my photos back from the lab, and i dont know whether the camera needs a service or i just need some photogrphy lessons but out of 3 rolls of 24 only 18 shots actually got exposed (the others were blank) and out of them NONE were any good"

On 26/04/2004 Mighty Mouse wrote:
>every time anyone mentions photography, multiple no-cluers jump in their
>'yeh velvia 50 is what all the pros use mmm'. i know that, so i don't need
>anyone to say it again...
>ok sorry now to the point (i just hate it when the replies completly stray
>from the question because nohopers want to put in their 2c)...

72 shots, 54 were blank and the remaining 18 were no good and your calling others no-cluers/no hopers. You do the math but it seems that mighty mouse might be a teapot calling the shiny new saucepans black ;)

i would wait until you release your first coffee table book until you make comments like that. suprisingly some of us no hopers have won competitions or even had there photos published :)

on an informative note you might what to check out the latest way that customs scan shipping conatiners and air mail bags. i remember reading somewhere that mail is x-rayed using a system different to that at airports which can damage film. check it out cause id hate to see US$100 of film ruined.


shmalec

27-Apr-2004
6:16:37 PM

as they say - ignorance is bliss.....so I'll take the rap for being a no-cluer and be blissful.

easiest way to save money on film is to try taking fewer, better photos.

can't help with recommendations but I'd be in on a bulk purchase if you can figure it all out. t

do they make provia 200 now?


nmonteith

27-Apr-2004
6:30:39 PM

I would imagine xrays only damage exposed film?


shmalec

28-Apr-2004
8:24:33 AM

hmmmm.....dunno about that.

the way i understand it is that the x rays effectively expose the film to a little "light" each time you go through. if you go through lots then they end up washed out ie over exposed (although each of the colours of the film may not get affected at the same rates as you might expect with white light).

if this is the case then b4 or after wouldn't matter...you would be takeing a photo over the top of a partially exposed film.

Also, the checked in luggage and freight x-ray machines are not the same as the hand luggage ones.

As I'm a no-cluer, this may all be crap. Would be happy for all the experts out there to chip in and correct me. ;-)


mousey

28-Apr-2004
8:50:41 AM

hey sorry if i offended anyone with the term 'nohopers'- im certainly not an authority on the camera myself...the people i was referring to are the ones who dont even take photos but the only thing they know what they have heard in internet forums...(not suggesting anyone like that is here- actually referring to the tendencies of the forum bumblies at rockclimbing.com)...it was addmittedly suposed to get a bit of a bite though so ill take any flak you want to send my way

it t is true that going through the xrays at airports can damage the film, and i dont think its only if its been exposed. from memory (of what my tafe teacher said all that time ago) its the radiation that does it, and radiation is cumulative (so by the time you've gone through xrays on both sides of the trip the radiation starts adding up)
the effects are allegedly fogging and heat strips etc. and some people swear by those xray bags for their film when they travel, however i havent found it to be a problem (with print film- i havent travelled with slide as i dont have a portable fridge :) and it may or may not be different)

to answer a few q's- yes they make provia 200f, the shipping is so expensive because its UPS i think (or some other airmail express delivery thing) and they have something worked out so that it doesnt get damaged (they have a lot of pro photog customers aparently)
if you want check out B&H website (google search), they have pretty good prices on all photo gear and if the shipping can be worked out im willing to split costs...


trent

28-Apr-2004
9:21:20 AM

As i suspected the scanning euipment used for bulk mail and stowed baggage are much stronger than that used for personal checks. Exposure of film whether it be unused or used but not processed yet can result in fog and light strips. its kind of like over exposing all your shots by half a stop. Kodak say that if you are going to take film through more five or more personal baggage scans you should use a lead lined bag or request a hand inspection of the film as allowed by FAA regulations.

This was taken from KODAKs website

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml
there are photo tests showing the effects of x ray on film

Airport Baggage Scanning Equipment Can Jeopardize Your Unprocessed Film

Because your pictures are important to you, this information is presented as an alert to travelers carrying unprocessed film. New FAA-certified (Federal Aviation Administration) explosive detection systems are being used in U.S. airports to scan (x-ray) checked baggage. This stronger scanning equipment is also being used in many non-US airports. The new equipment will fog any unprocessed film that passes through the scanner.

The recommendations in this document are valid for all film formats (135, Advanced Photo System [APS], 120/220, sheet films, 400 ft. rolls, ECN in cans, etc.).

Note: X rays from airport scanners don't affect digital camera images or film that has already been processed, i.e. film from which you have received prints, slides, KODAK PHOTO CD Discs, or KODAK Picture CDs.

This document also does not cover how mail sanitization affects film. If you would like information on that topic, click on this Kodak Web site: mail sanitization.

Suggestions for Avoiding Fogged Film
X-ray equipment used to inspect carry-on baggage uses a very low level of x-radiation that will not cause noticeable damage to most films. However, baggage that is checked (loaded on the planes as cargo) often goes through equipment with higher energy X rays. Therefore, take these precautions when traveling with unprocessed film:

Don't place single-use cameras or unprocessed film in any luggage or baggage that will be checked. This includes cameras that still have film in them.

If an attendant or security personnel informs you that your carry-on baggage must be stowed with the checked luggage or go through a second scan, remove your unprocessed film.

Have your exposed film processed locally before passing through airport security on your return trip.

If you're going to be traveling through multiple X-ray examinations (more than 5 times), request a hand search of your carry-on baggage. FAA regulations in the U.S. allow for a hand search of photographic film and equipment if requested. (See below for further FAA information.) However, non-US airports may not honor this request.

Request a hand inspection for all motion imaging origination films. Testing shows fog on motion imaging films even after a single X-ray scan. This increased fog flattens the entire toe region of the sensitometric curve reducing shadow detail in a telecine or projected image. However, Explosive Trace Detection instruments provide no risk to motion picture films and can be used in conjunction with hand inspection to provide a non-destructive method of motion film inspection.

If you're asked to step aside for a more thorough scan of your carry-on baggage, the film could be harmed if they use the more intense X-ray equipment.You should take your unprocessed film out of your luggage.

Lead-lined bags, available from photo retailers, will weaken the X-radiation on film and reduce potential harm. However, the effectiveness of any particular lead bag depends on the intensity and electric potential of the X-ray generator, the lead's thickness, and the film speed. If you use a lead bag, check with the manufacturer for the effectiveness of their products with airport X-ray devices. The inspection process may be triggered by a lead bag on the scanner screen. In a typical airport surveillance situation, the baggage may be pulled aside for additional inspection.

Consider shipping unprocessed, unexposed or exposed film through an expedited carrier, but first check with the carrier to determine what package examination procedures they are using.

ronny

28-Apr-2004
9:30:52 AM

I'm in for some film if anyone gets a bulk order going.
I"ll also check with some others over here in 'delaide to see if they're keen also.
James


nmonteith

28-Apr-2004
10:01:58 AM

I use Velvia 50. Its what all the pros use. Its great.


shmalec

28-Apr-2004
10:33:12 AM

heheheh.....:-)

you carry a tripod everywhere then?


Mike

28-Apr-2004
10:43:34 AM

When we went to NZ a couple of years ago I took film from here, used it over there and got it developed when we returned. I attempted to "carry on" the film and cameras in a small day pack, but they refused when I asked for a manual inspection rather than it being scanned. They claimed their equipment wouldn't harm the film. It did. All the shots were fogged to some degree. (Subsequent shots on fresh film shot after we returned were fine).

Next time I intend to try harder for a manual inspection and maybe get one of those lead-lined bags. It sounds like both buynig and developing the film locally, before you return, would be ideal, but who has that kind of time when travelling?


shaggy

28-Apr-2004
12:45:56 PM

As I have put my 2c in other forums, I'll try not to bore myself too much. I have travelled overseas on photographic shoots many times, so I have worked out a few methods of carrying large amounts of film through many custom inspections. Firstly, nevery keep a film in your camera, they will always insist on x-raying it, take all your films out of their boxes and out of their cannisters, and place them all in a clear ziplock bag, this gives them a direct visual of what they are. Some customs, when they want to be assholes, will still open the bag and inspect the cartriges individualy. At the end of the day, customs have a law of their own, and can basially do what ever they want. This is especially apparent in some more exotic, less traveled or more arrogant countries. Sometime it's just easier to let them randomly pick one film and chuck that through the x-ray.

Back to the point, fed ex does have special methods for shipping film, insuring the non damage to the film. But like every other courier, there is always a risk.
For buying film, I usually wait until Vanbar has a special, and pick up a box or two. This is sometimes cheaper that shipping it from overseas. But not available that often. Make a call and ask, they will often tell you whether a special is coming up.

The other option is is to buy the film, and a leadlined box or bag from B&H and they will pack the film in to the bag/box for you, and ship it via normal courier. Works out about the same cost, but atleast you get a leadlined bag out of it. he he he.


mousey

28-Apr-2004
2:38:30 PM

On 28/04/2004 shmalec wrote:
>heheheh.....:-)
>
>you carry a tripod everywhere then?

not sure whether this is joke or not (if it is i missed it) but this is actually a common misconception (where the logic comes from i have no idea) that slow films need slow shutters....because in outdoor photography you're usually using more than adequate light (mixed with closeddown apertures in lower light) the 50 asa allows fine shutter speeds.
just wondering, ive always been taught that fast films = harsher/grainer, but is that just a myth carried on from the old days or does it still make a significant difference in modern films?


shaggy

29-Apr-2004
11:29:13 AM

true, as a general rule, the faster the film, the larger the grain structure. However, if you take fuji 800 print film for an example, has a similar grain size as most 200 asa films, kodak included.
The other thing that most people dont realise is that print film also has a much finer grain structure than equivelent slide film, ie, fuji superia 100 has a much finer grain than sensia 100.


nmonteith

29-Apr-2004
12:03:43 PM

Shooting Velvia50 off a rap rope in the shade with anything more than a 50mm lens and you will be struggling to keep things above 1/100th of a second and un-blurry - even with really fast fixed lenses (ie 1.4). That is my experiance! You might as well give up with shooting anything bigger than 85mm unless you have an image-stablizer lens or a REALLY steady hand.


mousey

29-Apr-2004
12:22:42 PM

i normally use a 28mm f2.4 (normally shooting off of 100 or 200)when on a rope so i dont really run into any problems with that... however when i try out for wider DOP it can get a bit dicey


nmonteith

29-Apr-2004
12:30:22 PM

I want to get in close - shallow DOP - itense expression. Its really not possible when hanging off a rope and shooting Velvia in the shade. I shot some stuff on Tiapan last weekend - Veliva100 - 50mm fixed lens. I was hoping for a nice sunset - but it just stayed overcast. I ended up shooting anyway - but had to crank it down to 1.8 to achieve 1/100th/sec and that made it extremely shallow DOP which meant a stack of my pics were soft. Maybe next time i will push the film to 200ASA and see if that works...


shmalec

29-Apr-2004
12:41:06 PM

I'm with Mr Monteith on that.

Don't have particularly fast lenses f3ish but I'm now shifting to 400speed film because I often can't take the shot, get blurred shots or can't get the depth of field I want with provia/reala 100asa when its overcast, under a canopy or I'm zoomed. And I'm too lazy to carry a tripod.

Nowdays the difference between 50/100/400 in terms of grain is barely noticable.....this its basically a hangup from 20 or 30 years ago. Go compare a couple of shots of provia 100 vs 400. If you like velvia colour and have fast lenses then sure, go for the 100. But if you don't carry a tripod and your handholding 50asa then you're very limited or wasting a lot of film.

My 2 cents.

Hey...whats happened to the forum police.....I thought this was a climbing site. :)


shaggy

29-Apr-2004
12:42:49 PM

Hey neil, with a 50mm lens, you should be able to shoot at 1/50 sec quite successfully, try it out, might take some practice, with a 50 mm lens I can shoot down as low as 1/30 sec, so be it, the occasional shot will be soft, but usually from subject movement, generally not camera shake.
Most lenses (and camera combinations) are designed and have the best performance 1 stop shut down from fully open, ie a f 2.0 lens is 'best' at f 2.8 etc... this is obviously more apparent shooting close and the subject is not at infinity.

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