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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

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Author
Off-topic: Climbers who believe in Jesus

rodw
5/02/2011
4:57:39 PM
Re Ethics classes....they are a choice to take instead of scripture up to the individual....it will be set by the person taking it..scripture clases are done this way..there is no set criteria they just go in and teach what they want to teach. My daughter has gone to them since starting school...she is in year 6 now...and has had moderate scripture teachers and some fire brime stone ones....my wife would say she is a non practising christian...believes in god but not the church and so with my beliefs being different we can teach our daughter a balanced view and she can make her own choice later in life.

The brief we have got on ethics classes is they will cover all religions as well as what would you type discussions..i.e you find a wallet in the street etc.....Id like her to take it in year 6 to give her a grounding of everything ...not just one side.,,,but we have a strong Hillsong contingent at our school (courtesy of living in Sydney bible belt in the NW) and they are very opposed to it.

As to Aethiest attacking you personally over your religion....I liken it to someone being Homophobic...its a scared reaction caused by worrying that they may actually be the thing they dispise. If you a true Aethiest you wouldnt care what soemone believes because religion dosn't matter...it kind of like getting upset that someone dosnt have sugar in their coffee when you do :)

Miguel75
5/02/2011
5:18:43 PM
On 5/02/2011 Wendy wrote:
>I am devestated to discover that the testament of the New True Lord, ODH,
>is as sexist and homophobic as that of the last. I propose that the word
>"bone" in this newly divined document be replaced with "shag" and "sister"
>with "sibling". Or is it simply not against the commandments if I go
>rug munching Sarah's hot little sister?

My vote for best post of the topic...

shortman
5/02/2011
5:28:29 PM
On 5/02/2011 rodw wrote:
....... If you a true Aethiest you wouldnt care what soemone believes because religion dosn't matter...it kind of like getting upset that someone dosnt have sugar in their coffee when you do :)

And the nail has been hit on the head!
My vote for best post of the topic.

nmonteith
5/02/2011
6:06:48 PM
63% Christians in Australia? I find that very hard to believe. I don't go out of my way to avoid them but i just don't seem to work with any or socialize with many. Where are they all hiding? I don't have a single member of my extended family (4 generations of English/scottish heritage) that have any religious bones in their body. I was sent to a religious high school but that was so i had better facilities, not a religious background. The wasted time i spent going to church every friggn day before school started still pisses me off. Are their really good private schools in Australia with no religious background?
jacq
5/02/2011
6:44:59 PM
Im sorry if my atheism offends you. But guess what your religious wars, jihads, crusades, inquisitions, censoring of free speech, brainwashing of children, murdering of albinos, forcing girls into underage marriages, female genital mutilation, stoning, pederasty, homophobia, and rejection of science and reason offends me. So I guess were even. -- Mike Treder


shortman
5/02/2011
6:59:17 PM
On 5/02/2011 nmonteith wrote:

63% Christians in Australia?

You read it wrong nmonteith, 63% of people who have a belief system in Australia call themselves christian.

shortman
5/02/2011
7:30:51 PM
This topic has125 posts so far, over 5500 views....does'nt the irony dawn on all the non-believers??

Christ had a simple, (albeit ultimate), message: My way or the highway - Make your choice?

Freely one shall choose. Why knock those who choose him?

The truth is like a double-edged sword, the chockstone(cornerstone) that the builder rejected if you will.

voodoo
5/02/2011
7:31:14 PM
On 5/02/2011 shortman wrote:
>On 5/02/2011 rodw wrote:
>....... If you a true Aethiest you wouldnt care what soemone believes
>because religion dosn't matter...it kind of like getting upset that someone
>dosnt have sugar in their coffee when you do :)
>
>And the nail has been hit on the head!
>My vote for best post of the topic.

You may find it best post, but I find it entirely inaccurate.

The definition of an atheist isn't someone who is disinterested in the beliefs of others. Atheism is quite simply a failure to believe in the existence of a higher being. In this sense, Rod's definition of "true atheism" is entirely misleading.

Sure there are plenty of atheists who fit this discription, who couldn't care less what fairies people want to believe in. But equally there are plenty of atheists who recognise that 'private worship' simply doesn't happen - there are plenty of areas of our society where the religious views of some are foisted on others. For example, Tony Abbott's veto over RU486, or the religious indoctrination of children who are too young to make their own informed decision, etc.

shortman
5/02/2011
7:36:20 PM
On 5/02/2011 voodoo wrote:
You may find it best post, but I find it entirely inaccurate.

Agreed

nmonteith
5/02/2011
7:54:57 PM
On 5/02/2011 shortman wrote:
>On 5/02/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>
> 63% Christians in Australia?
>
>You read it wrong nmonteith, 63% of people who have a belief system in
>Australia call themselves christian.

So why is no religion 18% in that list?

nmonteith
5/02/2011
7:59:38 PM
On 5/02/2011 shortman wrote:
>This topic has125 posts so far, over 5500 views....does'nt the irony dawn
>on all the non-believers??
>
>Christ had a simple, (albeit ultimate), message: My way or the highway
>- Make your choice?

I have a simple message as well. My way or the highway. Do you choose it?
jacq
5/02/2011
8:01:53 PM
It is interesting how theists like to generalise about atheists! Like religious folk, there are many variations of atheists, but basically we are all people who don't believe in a "god" of any sort. Some are hostile towards religion, some couldn't care less, some are political about it, some are not. However we "practice" our atheism, the only real commonality is we don't think there is a "god". After that, it's pretty individual. As mad as religion makes me personally, for all sorts of reasons, attacking people never wins people round to your way of thinking - it makes them cling on tighter to their beliefs - no matter how ludicrous or unbelievable we might think they are. I guess some like to involve their beliefs in all aspects of their life (as in the original post in this thread - you poor thing, I suspected this might happen!) and some just consider themselves "catholic" because they got sent to a catholic school. Either way, belief is very personal and emotional and as long as it is not used to harm or control others (which is where so many of the problems come from with religion and religious practice let's face it) then it's really a personal matter I guess.

shortman
5/02/2011
8:02:30 PM
Even an atheist has faith.....
Could imagine that you would have to back yourself and your abilities on a regular basis.

And trust the guy who made your rope, bent your carabiner, and stitched your sling.

18% believe in something with no religion.....and i think it's about 16% who actually believe nothin....hence this percentage is left out of the equation.


shortman
5/02/2011
8:04:44 PM
On 5/02/2011 nmonteith wrote:
I have a simple message as well. My way or the highway. Do you choose it?

What exactly are you asking?
Brazened
5/02/2011
8:15:12 PM
On 5/02/2011 jacq wrote:
>Im sorry if my atheism offends you. But guess what your religious wars,
>jihads, crusades, inquisitions, censoring of free speech, brainwashing
>of children, murdering of albinos, forcing girls into underage marriages,
>female genital mutilation, stoning, pederasty, homophobia, and rejection
>of science and reason offends me. So I guess were even. -- Mike Treder
>
>

I always find this sort of comment interesting. While I agree with the sentiments to some extent. The problem is that if man created religion then man is to blame for the above not religion. Religion is only a tool not the holder of the tool. It depends on how a man manipulates it. Ultimately it is man who is to blame!

Miguel75
5/02/2011
8:52:31 PM
On 5/02/2011 jacq wrote:
>...attacking people never wins people round to your way of thinking - it makes them >cling on tighter to their beliefs - no matter how ludicrous or unbelievable we might think >they are. I guess some like to involve their beliefs in all aspects of their life (as in the >original post in this thread - you poor thing, I suspected this might happen!)...

You're right Jacq, trying to coerce people into believing your way of thinking (not yours specifically) only causes conflict and ill feeling, doing more harm than good.

There are plenty of people who inject their religion into all aspects of their life, I'm guilty of it myself and have been quite open and vocal about my beliefs here on Chocky. My take on this whole thread is that it was never about questioning Christianity, just an opportunity to take the mickey. I say this as until recently (on the thread) no real inquisitive questions were asked.

On 5/02/2011 Brazened wrote:
>Religion is only a tool not the holder of the tool. It depends on how a man manipulates >it. Ultimately it is man who is to blame!

Amen to that. There's a saying I heard a while back which echoes your sentiments, "While the church is true the people may not be!" People are always the weak link.
cogsy
5/02/2011
9:18:26 PM
I wish I wasn't an atheist, but seriously, have you read some of that gobledegook that's in the Bible? Come on, you can't really expect a reasonable person to believe that rubbish!!!
When somebody comes up with at least a reasonably credible religious story, I might decide that it's easier to believe in than my own sadly limited mortality.
In the meantime, this is a very funny thread, I can't believe I actually enjoyed reading some of ODH's posts for the first time ever.

rodw
5/02/2011
9:41:02 PM
On 5/02/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>>You read it wrong nmonteith, 63% of people who have a belief system in
>>Australia call themselves christian.
>
>So why is no religion 18% in that list?

Monty those figures were from the last census....."christian" incorporates a very wide range of beliefs and levels of belief...many would just tick the box just because they were christened at birth so it makes them christian without a second thought.

18% ticked the box no religion...which might include agnostics as well....who knows...TBH I just thought it a very high number and thought it would have been smaller.

Voodoo, I disagree with the fact you disagree with me :)..but thats fine by me, it what makes this world interesting to live in.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
5/02/2011
9:41:11 PM
On 4/02/2011 Winston Smith wrote:
>If motorcycle riding climbers are relevant to this site then surely so
>too is questioning - albeit in an initially playful way - Christianity.

I thought I heard Gods trombone the other day, but I was wrong, it was just a Ducati instead!
Heh, heh, heh.

Miguel75
5/02/2011
10:07:27 PM
On 5/02/2011 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>I thought I heard Gods trombone the other day, but I was wrong, it was
>just a Ducati instead!
>Heh, heh, heh.

No M9 you were right. The rattle and thrum of a Ducati, and an Aston, are proof to me of intelligent design!;-)

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