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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

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Author
Trashing Tassie ... it's beyond salvation
Chockstone Moderator
19/03/2011
5:58:38 PM
Please excuse the thread hijack.

On 17/03/2011Chockstone Moderator wrote:
>[Personal abuse deleted, and a first and final warning PM sent to jesus by Chockstone Moderator].
>
Just so that it is clear jesus, since I notice that you are ignoring my PM to you for a couple of log-ins and postings to date (no respect there, I might add); I am now making public part of the PM to you, so that you will read it here, if not there.

Start PM quote;
>This is your first and last warning hex.
>NO personal abuse of others online will be tolerated from you by us Mods, as you have a Chockstone history and we have a memory.

>There will be no time out for you. Instead it will be immediate disablement of your latest user-id.

End PM quote.

If you are ignoring my posts (like my PM), the result will be the same, and others will know why you suddenly disappear should this happen.

I trust we understand each other now.






Resume normal transmission.

Miguel75
19/03/2011
6:55:44 PM
I know I'm feeding the troll but this thread is feeding off the sweat of a dead goats ball-bag.

Jesus, please stop with your inane ramblings. (Given I'm being polite I'm sure you'll listen to my plea...) You've poisoned this argument for me and at this point I would happily delve into childishness and pray for every rock on Tassie, over 2ft high, to be grid-bolted by anyone with a drill.

nmonteith
19/03/2011
8:41:00 PM
I actually think Jesus has a good point amongst all this randomness. Double standards about bolting in Tassie wilderness seems like a real issue. The slow eroding of old school trad crags into sport venues is happening all over Australua. Why is Ben Lomond picked as the one and only crag that should be bolt free? I just wish (as usual) that people with strong opinions actually put their own name to their posts. I give Gerry credit for actually putting his own name to his postings and for not bitching and moaning behind peoples back. He doesn't leave any doubts about his thoughts. However I don't agree with the way he seems to ignore others opinions - the poll running shows 82% in support of bolted rap anchors at Ben Lomond - with 100+ votes recorded. One man abusing the world isn't a great way of getting support for the cause.

Miguel75
19/03/2011
9:14:39 PM
On 19/03/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>I actually think Jesus has a good point amongst all this randomness. Double
>standards about bolting in Tassie wilderness seems like a real issue.

I totally agree Neil, but then, like any fundamentalist, he blew it by carrying on like a pork chop! I haven't read the entire thread as i reckon watching fundamentalists discuss the 'truth' is a tedious, insane exercise.

In my opinion, a modicum of rationality and a quiet, reflective pause every now and then will win more people to your way of thinking.
chalkischeap
19/03/2011
9:35:26 PM
I don't think a bolt free crag is going to work out in Aus. It works fine in Britain though. The trad areas are 100% bolt free - no rap stations, not one bolt. Meanwhile bolt clipping is available just a few kms away.

Arapiles would be bolt free if it had been developed under this system. Gogarth is like Arapiles-on-sea; multipitch quartzite with no bolts.

We would need a wacky grading system to go with it. The E grade system is a bit like vegemite - you need to grow up with it.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
19/03/2011
9:40:43 PM
On 19/03/2011 chalkischeap wrote:
>I don't think a bolt free crag is going to work out in Aus.

Why?

>It works fine in Britain though.

... because passionate people held their ground and chopped bolts if necessary?
crazyjohn
19/03/2011
9:43:18 PM
On 19/03/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>I actually think Jesus has a good point amongst all this randomness. Double
>standards about bolting in Tassie wilderness seems like a real issue. The
>slow eroding of old school trad crags into sport venues is happening all
>over Australua. Why is Ben Lomond picked as the one and only crag that
>should be bolt free?

This argument is kind of like Forestry Tasmania or Gunns logging a section of World Heritage protected forests and then saying,"Well I guess its not 'pristine' anymore so lets just cut it all down!" So the rest of Tas/Oz/The Whole F***ING PLANET is screwed up, why should we bother trying to preserve Bent? Thats the title of this whole thread. So the bolting in the rest of Tas sucks, therefore we should bolt at Ben Lomond? Absolute stupidity.

However, some idiots (Nick Hanc--k for one) were using the argument that since there were bolted abseils, that means it is not a bolt free zone, therefore bolted sport routes were acceptable. Gerry cutting the bolts was a reaction to this. Now that it has become a huge issue, I think ole' Gerry's ego is at stake as well. So its become kind of bogged down.

Keeping the Ben bolt free is important for climbing everywhere. As I said, personally I dont give a shit if people put in abseil bolts. Just as long as they are reasonable. I dont need them but I do not want bolted routes and if twisted individuals like Hanc--k are still going to use the idiotic argument that abseil bolts means go ahead for sport routes, then im fine with no bolts at all.

I have already said what I think of Hanc--k and his twisted logic. Apparently he has changed his opinion in his old age and believes The Ben should stay bolt free.

>I just wish (as usual) that people with strong opinions
>actually put their own name to their posts.
I agree which is why I put my full name when I called out Phil/Hex.


>running shows 82% in support of bolted rap anchors at Ben Lomond - with
>100+ votes recorded. One man abusing the world isn't a great way of getting
>support for the cause.

Yeah well its kind of just tough. It really is not a huge deal about no abseil bolts being there. I can see the frustration people who want abseil bolts but not sport routes have with Gerry and a few other climbers. Gerry and crew are probably not the majority. But thats kind of just tough luck at this stage.

aoraki
19/03/2011
10:03:34 PM
hey CJ you know this whole thing is an exercise in reverse psychology by jesus?
chalkischeap
19/03/2011
10:19:59 PM
On 19/03/2011 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 19/03/2011 chalkischeap wrote:
>>I don't think a bolt free crag is going to work out in Aus.
>
>Why?
>
>>It works fine in Britain though.
>
>... because passionate people held their ground and chopped bolts if necessary?

The debate goes on - there is a battle going on right now over Carn Vellan in Cornwall. The trad defenders have a long history of bolt free status on their side. Something that we haven't had in most areas of Aus.

The link to the grading system is important. With a simple number grade, when the going gets tough, the drill comes out. If you get extra points for scare factor, a blank section becomes an adrenalin opportunity.

Miguel75
19/03/2011
11:24:45 PM
On 18/03/2011 Paz wrote:
>much rather read Jesus dialect than flip through endless migual101 tripe
>on how many hexes he wants for chrissy...

Just reading through the last few pages and found this post. I don't like the Internet anymore;)

Guilty as charged Paz!!!! As Wendy summarised, I'm still fairly new to, and stoked on all things climbing. I've contributed a fair bit of tripe over the last few months (years) and make no apologies for it. I put it down to learning the ropes.. He he he.

I've found Chocky rather stale of late and while I really appreciate Jesus's passion, I'd prefer to read a post from someone like Gavo, where you can feel his climbing stoke coming from every pore. His stoke for climbing is contagious.
jesus
20/03/2011
12:14:23 AM

jesus
20/03/2011
12:24:55 AM
>>>The link to the grading system is important. With a simple number grade, when the >>>going gets tough, the drill comes out....


....yes ...its all become rather messy ... ppl not understand that the simple Ubank system only takes into account , the technically hardest move on a route ... so while one person might have an epic on a grade 20 crack ... stressin & fadin ... hanging around selecting n placing 10 runners ... Henry Barber might do the same route ' effortlessly cos HE only needs 2 or 3 runners to make a confident ascent ...BUT ... the grade remains the same ...


jesus
20/03/2011
12:50:40 AM
>>>Thats the title of this whole thread.

No its not .

>>>So the bolting in the rest of Tas sucks...

Not sayin that ...
Lets split that into WHATS being bolted and HOW its being bolted ...

Free Route on the Totem Pole gets the thumbs up , eg ...

Parkyns 20 bolt desecration of Sky Rocket ... and ... all the stuff Winston referred to ... get the thumbs down , eg ...


>>> therefore we should bolt at Ben Lomond?

No connection what so eva ...

My two carrot-bolt ADVENTURE route at western Ben is in existence to show that this common sense and RESPECTFULL route fits in perfectly with the REALITY of Tasmanian National Parks ( which does not necessarily equate with ' wilderness ') and U. s. & A . advanced rationality ...

... NOT fitting in with Gerry's ' once were warriors ... now are wankers ' hypocricy ...

National Parks at Freycinet are perfectly happy with bolting there ...

If your REALLY choking on your cornflakes over this ...then chat with Roger about his advice to Tas new routers...

>>>Wilderness crags with no previous climbing : If you're the first to climb at any cliff >>>then climbers aren't going to complain about placeing fixed anchors.


The day Gerry removes Fantinis tube chocks ... is the day I ...consider ... taking a shifter to the two carrot-bolts at western Ben ...







jesus
20/03/2011
12:52:54 AM
###########################################




TraSHiNg Tassie ...............it's beyond salvation ......






###########################################
jesus
20/03/2011
12:55:25 AM
>>>I actually think Jesus has a good point amongst all this randomness. Double >>>standards about bolting in Tassie wilderness seems like a real issue. The slow >>>eroding of old school trad crags into sport venues is happening all over Australua.


YOU DA MAN , NEIL ...



: )







jesus
20/03/2011
9:00:35 AM


THIS IS TOTALLY AGREEABLE...


I actually think Jesus has a good point amongst all this randomness........ Double standards about bolting in Tassie wilderness seems like a real issue.........The slow eroding of old school trad crags into sport venues is happening all over Australua........


.... THOUROUGHLY AGREEABLE





jesus
20/03/2011
9:06:46 AM




...this space is reserved for climbing community contemplation of Neil's brilliance ...




jesus
20/03/2011
9:14:07 AM



TOOOOOOOOOOOOTALLY AGREEEEEEEEEEEABLE ......






aoraki
20/03/2011
9:39:33 AM
Thought you'd be out somewhere on the Ben early on jesus's day of rest?
crazyjohn
20/03/2011
12:02:39 PM
On 20/03/2011 jesus wrote:
...
>Lets split that into WHATS being bolted and HOW its being bolted ...
>
>Free Route on the Totem Pole gets the thumbs up , eg ...
>
>Parkyns 20 bolt desecration of Sky Rocket ... and ... all the stuff
>Winston referred to ... get the thumbs down , eg ...

Im not sure about you but I have actually climbed these routes. Inflagrente is well bolted. Ive climbed it and sky rocket at least half dozen times and the bolts in inflagrente are not even close. I have never even heard of anyone bitching about this. It must be from WAAAAAY back in the day. Now Neon God is a different story, but again that was already bitched about(with saphire rose) and I think for good reason. But these are exceptions that prove the rule that "the vast majority of bolted climbs in Tasmania are well concieved and well bolted".

As far as the Totem pole original route 1st pitch by Monks? Its shit. If you mean the deep play variant, perhaps it was a well bolted route, except it has been recently REBOLTED with thanks from 1st ascent. I think your out of the loop.



>No connection what so eva ...
>
>My two carrot-bolt ADVENTURE route at western Ben is in existence to show
>that this common sense and RESPECTFULL route fits in perfectly with the
>REALITY of Tasmanian National Parks ( which does not necessarily equate
>with ' wilderness ') and U. s. & A . advanced rationality ...
>
>... NOT fitting in with Gerry's ' once were warriors ... now are wankers
>' hypocricy ...

There is no hypocricy in wanting to keep an area like Ben Lomond bolt free. There never were bolted routes so having an area where you can just go for it ground up is awesome! This is such a boring argument because YOU PROBABLY DONT EVEN CLIMB!
>National Parks at Freycinet are perfectly happy with bolting there ...
This is bullshit. They are not "perfectly happy". And please for the love of god, YOU IDIOT, DO NOT go talking to parks about bolts in the park. This is moving from 'slightly amusing' thought experiment into what could actually screw up climbing.

>If your REALLY choking on your cornflakes over this ...then chat with
>Roger about his advice to Tas new routers...
>
>>>>Wilderness crags with no previous climbing : If you're the first to
>climb at any cliff >>>then climbers aren't going to complain about placeing
>fixed anchors.
Roger has funny thoughts on bolting. Everyone knows it. Although he pissed off alot of beard strokers back in the day, time has shown him to have good common sense. Even though he would bolt everything, he hasnt really.


>The day Gerry removes Fantinis tube chocks ... is the day I ...consider
>... taking a shifter to the two carrot-bolts at western Ben ...
again, have you even climbed anything your bitching about? One of those tubes in Fantinis is mine from the last time I climbed it. If anyone is interested, it was the old tube from Layback and Think of England. Some boys from Tassie bootied it and gave it to me by luck before I went up Fanitinis, and there it is still. So again, Mr. Veteran. You are out of the loop. At least even the internet loop you live in, if you even climb at all, which I doubt.

I would take you seriously if I knew who you were.. But since you know so little about what your talking about, I dont really care anymore. Good day sir.

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There are 307 messages in this topic.

 

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