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General Climbing Discussion

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climbing a rope

earwig

22-Nov-2010
10:05:44 AM

I’ve never had the need to climb a rope but I thought I’d see if I could in case I ever found myself in the situation where I had to. The short answer is, I can’t (yet). I set up a top-rope and abseiled down using a kleimheist as a stopper. I let my weight fall onto the knot, it gripped, I stopped moving. All was good. Now, how do get my weight off the thing so I can continue with the abseil or even actually ascend the rope. The scenario I was trying to train myself for was abseiling a bit, going “bugger” and having to retreat back up the rope. So, from abseil, with only a figure 8 connecting me to the rope, to climbing the rope I would do … what?

I’m guessing I needed two prusiks and would use slings as foot holds and kinda ratchet my way up. The reason I didn't was that I only had one kleimheist and one figure 8 at the time.

Wendy

22-Nov-2010
10:15:38 AM

Enrol in a basic self rescue course. It will be far more useful than any explaining over the internet.


Eduardo Slabofvic

22-Nov-2010
10:16:50 AM

Take a sharp knife with you next time

patto

22-Nov-2010
10:18:54 AM

Plenty of good books addressing this subject and thousands of online resources.

You can start locally:
http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/AscendRope.htm

But yes in general you need two devices to grip the rope. One to holds your weight while you move the other. Its possible to use a belay/friction device as one piece, gri-gri works well along with an prussik/ascender/shunt.

widewetandslippery

22-Nov-2010
10:21:14 AM

You lock off the 8 by wrapping the rope over itself. Put prussick cord above 8 on rope. extend cord with whatever to extend cord into functional footloop. stand up in footloop, pull slack rope through 8 and lock it off. Think to self "this sucks".Repeat. Invent a new dictionary of cursing.

Klemhiests and prussicks suck. They are for emergency use only. I've never been skull f---ed but I reckon it would be better than prussiking.

Yes using knots works but its very hard work compared to using a mechanical ascender. I'm not saying carrying some cord is no a very good idea. Knots actually work better on doubled ropes than single IMO.

If you are planning on ascending lines get some ascenders.

There is also the middle road usng a knot and an autolock belay device, there are ropeman, tiblocs and all sorts of compromise equipment thats a bit lighter out there.


cruze

22-Nov-2010
10:25:03 AM

There are probably heaps of different ways to ascend. Here is one that assumes you don't have a second prussik (naughty boy - don't forget you can use a sling):

1) Pull up slack rope below the abseil device and tie a figure eight on a bite and clip to belay loop on harness (this is your backup).
2) Unclip figure eight from rope.
3) Clip a biner from your belay loop around the rope (this stabilises your harness when you unweight the prussik as mentioned below).
4) Pull up a section of rope between your prussik and your back up knot and wrap it around your foot so as to create a foothold in the rope.
5) Step up in foot loop to take the weight off the prussik which is attached to your harness.
6) Slide prussik up rope as far as you can while standing in the leg loop
7) Take weight on the prussik
8) Release foot from foothold in rope.
9) Repeat 4) to 8) until you are back to the anchor , retying the back up every now and then so there is less rope out as you ascend.

If you wanted to continue the abseil then try to use a prussik knot that can be manually released under load. Otherwise:

1) Wrap foot around rope below the abseil device
2) Step up in foothold
3) Release prussik knot.
4) Continue to abseil.

Hope that makes sense. Each technique will require a bit of fiddling until you can move efficiently. Please point out any weakness in either technique, or suggest better ones for my benefit.

hargs

22-Nov-2010
10:32:56 AM

>Enrol in a basic self rescue course. It will be far more useful than any
>explaining over the internet.

Wendy's right, but if you really want to practice this yourself you could read David Fasulo's self rescue book. A bit convoluted in places, but it'll give you some ideas.

You can get away with one prusik loop and a descender if you have to: tie the prusik on above your descender, then tie in short (because you're about to unclip your descender. Keep two points attached to the rope at each point in this procedure.) Swap your descender from abseil mode to belay mode (works better with a reverso than a figure-8). Wrap a couple of loops or rope around your foot so you can stand up, slide the prusik up, then take-in and lock off your belay device/descender. Repeat until your foot falls off.

hargs

22-Nov-2010
10:44:22 AM

>Klemhiests and prussicks suck. They are for emergency use only. I've never
>been skull f---ed but I reckon it would be better than prussiking.

>If you are planning on ascending lines get some ascenders.

Tiblocs are great for this: easy to carry, easy to get on and off the rope, easy to use.


ajfclark

22-Nov-2010
11:23:54 AM

On 22/11/2010 Wendy wrote:
>Enrol in a basic self rescue course. It will be far more useful than any explaining over the internet.

The VCC just finished another round of these over the weekend. The waitlist for the next course is already open but I'm not 100% sure when it'll be on. It's free for VCC members. Drop me a PM or email webmaster@vicclimb.org.au if you want more details or to register your interest and I'll pass it on to the people organising the next one.


ajfclark

22-Nov-2010
11:29:09 AM

On 22/11/2010 earwig wrote:
>Now, how do get my weight off the thing so I can continue with the abseil or even actually ascend the rope.

If I was going to continue descending, I'd wrap the rope around my foot and stand up to get my weight off the kleimheist.

Also, there's some relevant material in the tech tips section of this site: http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/AscendRope.htm

gfdonc

22-Nov-2010
11:31:49 AM

On 22/11/2010 hargs wrote:
>Tiblocs are great for this: easy to carry, easy to get on and off the
>rope, easy to use.

I've never used a Tibloc, but I normally carry a RopeMan II and I find that pretty good. It's a little fiddly to get on and off the rope one handed, and the steel cam is a bit heavy. But it locks on securely and handles a wide range of rope sizes.

hargs

22-Nov-2010
12:11:00 PM

To be clear, I'm not recommending tiblocs in place of 'proper' mechanical ascenders, but they're good for emergency use instead of tying knots. You can fiddle a tibloc on with one hand if you've tied on a keeper string, but it's much easier and faster with two hands.


nmonteith

22-Nov-2010
12:56:02 PM

Prussics are fine if you are only doing it once in a blue moon. Totally safe - just a bit slow. It's not nearly as bad as people are making it out. I've had to get up stuck abseil ropes on several occasions just using slings and quickdraws - especially fun on a single 8mm rope perched 150m up the Grose!

Wendy

22-Nov-2010
1:02:24 PM

Prussics are fine - i certainly wouldn't carry a set of jumars around for the purpose! However, if you don't know how to do something as basic as prussic, that self rescue course is a really good idea. Or at least get a friend who knows what they are doing to give you a few hours instruction at the crag.

I used to carry a ropeman for hauling and swore by it until I lost it in the states. I bought a tibloc to replace it, and I'm sold, it's even quicker and easier to use than the ropeman. But I still use prussics to get back up a rope when I have to.


nmonteith

22-Nov-2010
1:09:14 PM

I thought these days its just easier to pull out your mobile and call in a helicopter rescue.


cruze

22-Nov-2010
1:54:08 PM

Do mechanical ascenders that use a combination of pressure and teeth to clamp the rope (eg triblocs, jumars, etc) do any significant damage to a dynamic rope? Is it sheath damage only?

earwig

22-Nov-2010
2:11:44 PM

Thanks for the advice everyone. This came about from having a free afternoon and no-one to climb with so I thought I’d practice some stuff I should know - an excuse to get out onto some rock at the very least. I’ve picked up some Jumars this morning and an invitation to learn/practise both Jumars and prussics.


Eduardo Slabofvic

22-Nov-2010
2:15:04 PM

Tiblocs can have a tendency to let go if you load them on an angle, such as a tension traverse, but then we do this stuff for excitement, so what they hey!

If you’re on a single rope then use a Gri Gri to descend, then use it as the second locking device to ascend. If you’re on two ropes, just man the Fcuk up and haul up hand over hand.


nmonteith

22-Nov-2010
2:26:26 PM

On 22/11/2010 cruze wrote:
>Do mechanical ascenders that use a combination of pressure and teeth to
>clamp the rope (eg triblocs, jumars, etc) do any significant damage to
>a dynamic rope?

No. I use dynamic ropes quite a bit for bolting and they are fine for jumaring on. Obviously if you continue to do it every day the sheath will eventually get worn from the teeth - but its slow damage like when a rope runs over rough rock when you are lowering.

earwig

22-Nov-2010
2:36:20 PM

On 22/11/2010 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>just man the Fcuk up and haul up hand over hand.
>

I saw someone do that once, but it was at the circus ...

There are 26 messages in this topic.