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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Poll Option Votes Graph
I tie both ends together in a single knot, always 3
I tie a separate knot in each, always 22
I tie both ends together, only on multiple raps 6
I tie a separate knot, only on multiple raps 28
I tie myself into the end of the rope 0
I don't knot the ropes 12

 Page 3 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 53
How do you knot the end of a rope on abseil?
8:55:52 AM
On 27/10/2010 patto wrote:
>If I'm going to the trouble of putting a descending climber on belay then
>i'll lower them. What happens if they get hair/clothing caught in their
>belay device?

You could ask them if they can grab the rock and get their weight off the rope - after all they have a top rope. You can take them in tight, providing a little movement on the rap rope and ask them if they can wiggle it out. It takes me less than a minute to rig a 6:1 that I can haul people nearly twice my size with completely onto the top rope, leaving other rope free. If they loose the plot, i can still lower them, but in the meanwhile, they are learning skills and building confidence that they would be if I just lowered them from the top.

The rescue will be all the more difficult with you above
>them. Personally I go first and clear the way for the noob, making sure
>there are no tangles and I'm more able to give a bottom belay and rescue
>from below. (I put them on rope before I head down.)

How do you rescue from below that is easier?
>But yeah there are multiple ways to skin a cat.

Tis true. But I still don't get how rescue from below is easier. Possible, yes. Easier, don't get it.

9:13:45 AM
>>On 26/10/2010 Wendy wrote:


What Wendy has demonstrated here is text book redundancy. Threading his nipple rings is pure genius.
9:18:02 AM
Mr Lifto was very helpful. He even offered me his tongue ring, but I thought that was overkill.
6:37:53 PM
"If your prussic isn't gripping, you haven't tied the right sort/put enough twists/are using inappropriate rope/prussic diameter ratios and so forth."

The problem being that rope is so variable that it is impossible to even count on something like three wraps of 6mm cord on a 10.5mm rope being anything but a maybe as to whether it will hold me or not.

If I am climbing with my own rope, then I know if a prussic will work or not.
If it is somebody else's, then I have no idea unless I set up something to test it.

Really, how many people test their prussick setup on a strangers rope?
Much easier, quicker and safer to get a belay from below or above if there is a concern that the rap will not go smoothly.

Several times I have shown how easily a prussic will slip, always amazes the ones that never give a thought to their fallibility.

The fact that I am only a little bit heavier than average due to my height, shows how close to the limit that average people are when they use a prussic.
Most simply do not realise it.

The only time I have ever tied knots in the end of my rope was when abseiling into an unknown descent in the dark.
I never use a prussic to abseil, they are cumbersome and compromise my primary safety.
If I need to stop, a few wraps around my leg works better.
If the rap is problematic and has an element of danger, then a belay from the top or bottom is far superior.

Richard Delaney
7:06:18 PM
There is prussik cord and prussik cord.
I have several sets of 8mm lovely soft cord (blue water I think) which never has any problem.
I have used these for every situation from very light loads to 250kg rescue loads in Vertical Rescue contexts.
Many organisations rightly claim that double 8mm 3 wrap classic prussiks make by far the best rescue belay device - and they certainly do not compromise safety for heavy loads.
Prussik loops and knowledge of their diversity of use should be one of a climber's fundamental tools.

10:01:38 PM
a few points:
1. Prussik is knot/bend of cord. Not an activity. A true Prussik is normally used for going UP, not DOWN (i.e. it is a type of knot/bend which allows a specific activity)

2. Auto block is a method of stopping an abseil. Not a knot/bend of cord. There are various knots/bends that will accomplish this. A Prussik knot/bend is not the best of these options.

3. A belay device extended up and away from the climber has advantages and disadvantages. An auto block method has advantages and disadvantages. Do some research. I have always extended my device from my harness and used a Kleimheist knot below the device for an autoblock (backup). IT HAS SAVED MY LIFE TWICE.

4. Tieing knots in the end of your rope (s) has advantages and disadvantages. I have always tied knots in mine. 95% of the time there has been no problem. 5% of the time there was a moderate, not life threatening problem.

5. Worst case scenario: multipitch rappel. no knots in the rope, no autoblock (backup) knot/bend. Rock falls, breaks your arm, skull. You let go of the rope, as you are unconscious, zip off the ends of the rope, and go splat. I would prefer to fuss about with the knots which, maybe, get stuck somewhere during the rappel, and the extra 60 seconds per rappel breaking down and setting up the autoblock, to prevent the splat portion of this scenario.
Richard Delaney
6:05:23 AM
So I guess, technically, I can't "go and do that climb" either as climb is a verb?
I think common usage defines language and everybody here certainly understands expressions like:
"prussik up the rope"
"Put on an auto-block"

Just don't give me:
"That's a whole nother story"

6:42:24 AM
a. climb is both a noun and a verb.
b. the purpose of defining 'prussik' and 'autoblock' is to help people who don't have a high level of experience improve their overall climbing knowledge and to prevent people from fixating upon 'prussik' as the only choice available for an 'autoblock' (ie one of the posters mentioned having difficulty with his 'prussik' because he was above average weight; perhaps he can research different 'knots/bends' to prevent problems and climb safer)
c. by the way, do you know the difference between a 'prussik' and a 'kleimheist' ? a 'butterfly, alpine' a 'double bowline' ? a 'munter' and a 'clove' , all used for very different activities. if you do, good on you; but perhaps another person reading the site doesn't and may be interested enough to find out and become a better climber.
6:54:51 AM
On 27/10/2010 freesolo wrote:
>a few points:
>1. Prussik is knot/bend of cord. Not an activity. A true Prussik is normally
>used for going UP, not DOWN (i.e. it is a type of knot/bend which allows
>a specific activity)

First, it's Prusik, after Dr Karl Prusik, and I take "to prusik" to mean 'to use a prusik', so I can happily prusik up, down or sideways. (I can't even believe I'm having this discussion. English borrows nouns all the time, it's part of the normal development of the language, but that's a whole other thread.)

>2. Auto block is a method of stopping an abseil. Not a knot/bend of cord.
>There are various knots/bends that will accomplish this.

An auto-block is a knot, made with a Prusik loop girth hitched to your harness, wrapped around the rope a few times, clipped back to harness with a carabiner. That's as much it's own knot as a Bachman or a Klemheist. They're friction hitches, by the way. A bend is used for joining two ropes together. A hitch is used for attaching a rope to an object, which in this case happens to be another rope.

God help them at work today.
4:32:45 PM
5:17:48 PM
Hmm .. my own thread back to haunt me.
In case I haven't mentioned earlier, I used to tie figure 8 on the bight as a stopper knot, but then found (fortunately without injury) that they tend to come untied when the end is flapping around in the breeze.
These days it's a stopper knot (half a double fisherman's) on each rope.

5:59:31 PM
On 26/10/2010 Wendy wrote:
>Someone run me by the advantage of tying knots in the end if it's a single pitch abseil that you know is shorter than your available rap rope?

Ask Toby:
9:28:08 PM
...and maybe Zac

 Page 3 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 53
There are 53 messages in this topic.


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