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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 5 of 7. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 122
Author
Mt Arapiles development plans

blueskyblonde
28/10/2010
8:00:34 PM
Seeing as though climbing is a 'fringe' activity what if climbers decided to implement a 'fringe' idea where climbers become/act as custodian's for the park. It is more than apparent that out of all user groups climbers have the greatest spiritual connection and an intimate knowledge of the camping, access, re-vegetation, climbing etc...so, like in dirty harry if climbers took the 'law' into their own hands - by making sure people
- camp in the designated areas
-do not collect fire wood in the park
-use only access tracks provided
-do not leave rubbish laying around etc...etc.

By enforcing i just mean making people more aware of the rules so they no longer walk around in an ignorant state and make simple mistakes. By demonstrating to Tourism Vic that the area is improving both camping wise and also in an environmental aspect through climbers managing the area a better argument could be developed for the denial of eco-tourism and development plans.

i dont know really, but i guess as bob dylan said "Money doesn't talk it swears!!" so if any one can get even a whif of a money making opportunity in the area i think that the current culture and values system that climbers have established at Mt Arapilies may be under threat.
Wendy
29/10/2010
7:52:11 AM
On 28/10/2010 Li wrote:
>So apart from all the interesting opinions/thoughts from everyone, is there
>anything active happening to try and preserve the campground for climbers?
> Have we got a group of lobbyists together. I would like to help in some
>way - even though I'm now miles away from my favorite climbing spot!

Feel free to write to all of the forementioned agencies! Note that the HRCC plan needs submissions by monday, so today is a good day to pen something supporting their current plan of minimal facilities at the Mt and devt in Natimuk.

>stealth:However, I think we are all living in Cloud Cuckoo Land if we expect The Pines and adjoining camp/picnic areas to remain as a monument to the lycra brigade of the 1980s.
Things will eventually change, and we may have to climb over a few sleeping bods on ledges during those early morning multi-pitch climbs.

When I first came to the mt 20 years ago, you could drive into the pines, collect firewood, tracks wents everywhere and the north campground and boulder fields reveg hadn't happened. It was also free. But $2 isn't the end of the world - it's a better deal than Frog or Stapylton. Plenty of things have changed at the Pines since the 80s in terms of climber and local driven better care of the park without detriment to the culture of the place. Driving people into free camping and bivvying around the Mt would be crap - this inevitably leads to shit/rubbish/tracks/clearings appearing.

>blueskyblonde:Seeing as though climbing is a 'fringe' activity what if climbers decided to implement a 'fringe' idea where climbers become/act as custodian's for the park.

Climbers are pretty much the only group doing anything to care for the park. Friends of arapiles and the VCC are the driving forces, chasers of funding and most of the labour for signage, track work, weeding, reveg, rubbish removal etc etc. However, as Tracey can testify, it's frequently the same people everytime doing the work, so an awful lot more climbers could throw their bit in as well.

Eduardo Slabofvic
29/10/2010
8:57:14 AM
On 29/10/2010 Wendy wrote:
>>Feel free to write to all of the forementioned agencies! Note that the
>HRCC plan needs submissions by monday, so today is a good day to pen something
>supporting their current plan of minimal facilities at the Mt and devt
>in Natimuk.

But they don't support it. If they supported it, they wouldn't be involving themselves in the project. They are acting against their own policies and this is a key point that needs to be brought to light.
ZERO
29/10/2010
11:02:22 AM
What part of the report are we responding to?
I glanced at it yesterday and the most glaring part was the recommendation to scrap the current Nati/Araps planning strategy section.

Who do we respond to?
How? Email, letter etc?
maxdacat
29/10/2010
11:18:38 AM
I think development of any kind gets a bad rap from climbers so it might be worth reflecting on something similar in NSW at another climbing destination:

The entire resort has been designed to occupy just two per cent of the entire 4000 acres Emirates lease and own in the area. In its literature, Emirates describes Wolgan Valley as a conservation-based luxury resort. This is not a trite marketing spin but a very serious part of the resort’s DNA. For example, not one tree was felled to build the resort. It was the first resort in the world to be given a carbon-neutral certification. More than 175,000 trees have been planted in the rejuvenation of the land and wilderness. Emirates has also put real effort into restricting feral animals, and instigating a breeding program for endangered species.

from:

http://www.australiantraveller.com/component/content/article/4792

I'll probably never stay there but I'm glad the Emirates resort got built. I am not sure something similar will ever get established at Araps, not because it's a bad thing but because the business case will never stack up.

wombly
29/10/2010
12:03:58 PM
The emirates resort isn't all beer and skittles for the local environment, for all their talk on sustainability. I'm fairly much convinced that the amount of roadkill has increased due to those working at the resort speeding home at night. They've also widened the road and added a powerline, while at the same time telling their guests that the whole place is run on 100% locally generated renewables. They've put serious effort into reducing their impact - which is to be lauded, but zero impact it aint.
BA
29/10/2010
12:40:36 PM
On 29/10/2010 maxdacat wrote:

>Emirates has also put real effort into restricting feral animals,

Well that should put paid to the lycra brigade then.

Zebedee
1/11/2010
11:39:40 PM
On 29/10/2010 BA wrote:
>On 29/10/2010 maxdacat wrote:
>Well that should put paid to the lycra brigade then.
new eco-friendly tourism won't let you wear your petroleum based clothing through the gate which will increase your wilderness experience while you climb with your hemp rope to achieve the maximum wilderness experience before you retire to your eco-lodge and raid your five star rated mini-bar
One Day hero
8/11/2010
4:26:54 PM
On 19/10/2010 davidn wrote:
>
>Nono, you missed the point. The point is 'i'm old, get off my lawn, blahblahblah'.
>
>It was only okay when ODH was young, and sponging off all of those things
>you mentioned to become a better climber. Now we have to wait for him
>to die before gyms, gear shops, guides, magazines etc can make money.
>Gonna be a lean time for 'em... Unless you bribe his belayer to let slip
>the rope in surprise from being yanked off the ground!
>
>Anyhow, it's the typical incendiary nonsense. Chop all bolts! Stop all
>enterprise! My lawn, you is on it!
>
>Oh, for a quality troll.

Sorry I took so long to reply to this, been orf in da bush.

Actually Dave, I'm not trolling, this is really what I think......and you would probably agree with me if you stopped and thought about it......unless you're a retard, I didn't think you were.

Climbing ain't soccer! If you encourage more people to get into soccer, you build more soccer fields, no problem at all. If you encourage more people into climbing, where do they climb? Can you build more crags?.......well yes, but can you build more good crags? No, apparently not. Instead of Araps and Thompsons, we'll all get to climb on pieces of shit like Tianjara in the fantastic new world of crowded australian climbing.

I have a problem with anyone who is getting rich while the best crags are getting trashed as a result, and also have a problem with dipshits who enable access to these crags by a wider section of the community.

So, what can you do to help?

1) Don't introduce people to climbing unless you really like them. Of course you want your friends to get into stuff you like, but don't take that annoying guy from st. peters to the Blueys just cause he's been pestering you......leave fukwits in the gym

2) Don't go to araps during the Easter uni break. 1000 arseholes sharing 10 dunnies is not a fun time, take your own arsehole out of the equation

3) Don't make crags safe and easy! A little sketchiness and rusty hardwear is a fantastic way to keep numbers down. People who have a bit of initiative and really want to be there will find a way to make things safe, pussies who just wanted to show off their new arcteryx harness will freak out and go back to the gym, and the stoopid people will get stretchered out of there and into another sport.......the perfect darwinian solution.
climbingjac
8/11/2010
4:58:36 PM
Perhaps it is time to remind the powers that be of the Arapiles Panther. It is an endangered species and one must not mess with the habitat of endangered species. That should put the whole issue to an end.

ajfclark
8/11/2010
5:00:46 PM
Wouldn't that get us all banned from climbing there?
One Day hero
8/11/2010
5:07:04 PM
Better to scare people with safety bullshit. I was talking to a gymbunny on the w/e and asked if she had ever climbed on rock?

Her: "No, I kind of want to.....but isn't it dangerous with lots of big bits of rock falling off?"

Me: "................Uh, why yes. Actually, I had a friend killed just last month. But its worth the risk, don't you think?"

One less to worry about :)
One Day hero
8/11/2010
5:10:57 PM
On 8/11/2010 ajfclark wrote:
>Wouldn't that get us all banned from climbing there?

Jac is trying to make the stupid point that if I value my right to climb there, then we should encourage every person in australia to climb at araps......just to be fair y'know........cause trashing araps into a polished, shit covered, crowded, camping on top of each other shithole is much much better than even a hint of unfairness
patto
8/11/2010
5:20:11 PM
On 8/11/2010 One Day hero wrote:
>Better to scare people with safety bullshit. I was talking to a gymbunny
>on the w/e and asked if she had ever climbed on rock?
>
>Her: "No, I kind of want to.....but isn't it dangerous with lots of big
>bits of rock falling off?"
>
>Me: "................Uh, why yes. Actually, I had a friend killed just
>last month. But its worth the risk, don't you think?"
>
>One less to worry about :)

You must be very happily married OR she was not attractive!
earwig
11/11/2010
9:26:28 AM
The Age this morning has an article about the government (and opposition) bending over backwards to be nice to hunters, expanding areas where you can shoot including, apparently, into national parks.

It must be nice to have a strong lobby group supporting your activity. And please - that isn't a dig at the VCC or anyone else, more a comment on the relative percieved voting power of different recreational interests and that hunters, four wheel drivers and anglers have it all over climbers, bushwalkers ands skiers.

We need a bumper sticker! - "I Climb and sometimes I Vote"
hero
11/11/2010
11:00:19 AM
anacdotally, when Malcolm Fraser banned whaling in Australia it was because his 12 year old daughter implored him, not because of the worldwide condemnaton. Anyone want to take the Bumby children (sound's like an Elaine Mitchell book) climbing?

Sarah Gara
16/03/2011
5:30:39 PM
I just recieved this email

Dear Sir/Madam

I refer to correspondence received regarding the belief that a tourism development is proposed for Mt Arapiles and apologise for the delay in responding.

The Tourism Victoria Regional Tourism Action Plan identifies an opportunity for investment at Mt Arapiles that may include the development of visitor accommodation and tourism facilities at Mt Arapiles.

To date, Council is not aware of any such development being proposed at Mt Arapiles.

The area around the base of Mt Arapiles is zoned “Farming” and in accordance with the Horsham Planning Scheme, a development of this type in the Farming Zone is prohibited unless it is associated with some type of agricultural use.

I trust that your concerns are now alleviated in relation to this matter.

If you have any queries, please do not hesitate to contact the undersigned on telephone 03 53829728 or mobile 0407 340997.

Yours faithfully



ROBIN N NEILSON (Mr)
General Manager
Planning and Promotion Services

Horsham Rural City Council
P.O. Box 511 - 3402 Horsham Victoria - Australia
Phone: (03) 53829 769
http://www.hrcc.vic.gov.au shirley.brown@hrcc.vic.gov.au

Glad to see I wasn't the only one who spent the time to write x
Access T CliffCare
16/03/2011
6:49:28 PM
On 16/03/2011 Sarah Gara wrote:
>I just recieved this email
>
>Dear Sir/Madam
>
>I refer to correspondence received regarding the belief that a tourism
>development is proposed for Mt Arapiles and apologise for the delay in
>responding.
>
>The Tourism Victoria Regional Tourism Action Plan identifies an opportunity
>for investment at Mt Arapiles that may include the development of visitor
>accommodation and tourism facilities at Mt Arapiles.
>
>To date, Council is not aware of any such development being proposed at
>Mt Arapiles.
>
>The area around the base of Mt Arapiles is zoned “Farming” and in accordance
>with the Horsham Planning Scheme, a development of this type in the Farming
>Zone is prohibited unless it is associated with some type of agricultural
>use.
>
>I trust that your concerns are now alleviated in relation to this matter.
>
>If you have any queries, please do not hesitate to contact the undersigned
>on telephone 03 53829728 or mobile 0407 340997.
>
>Yours faithfully
>
>
>
>ROBIN N NEILSON (Mr)
>General Manager
>Planning and Promotion Services
>
>Horsham Rural City Council
>P.O. Box 511 - 3402 Horsham Victoria - Australia
>Phone: (03) 53829 769
>http://www.hrcc.vic.gov.au shirley.brown@hrcc.vic.gov.au
>
>Glad to see I wasn't the only one who spent the time to write x
>

Interesting though that there were/are movements to rezone some of these areas - which would make it a lot easier if sometime in the future they want to revisit it. Which of course they will. Identifying those things which are obstructions is one of the first steps towards making your goal a reality. This is a major obstruction for development. Which is a plus for us - but only if it remains so. There was a link earlier in this thread which is now not working -see below
http://www.hrcc.vic.gov.au/attachment/245_1)%20Draft%20-%20Planning%20Scheme%20Review%20A
This was the review for looking at changing some of the zoning.
I have a little more info regarding this and I do have the document - can't access it at this very moment in time but shall do so shortly.

Sometimes its the quiet things going on behind the scenes which are the ones we should be paying attention to. Important that the agricultural zoning stays in place. There will be opportunity to comment further on this when the draft is done. Pens ready!

Eduardo Slabofvic
16/03/2011
7:42:10 PM
There is some other ting underway in regards to national parks and allowing commercial development in the parks. This is not a Horsham specific issue, as it would apply state wide. I have no details at hand, but maybe other do.
duglash
16/03/2011
9:11:47 PM
I wank and I vote.

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