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Multiptich anchor question


Eduardo Slabofvic

30-Sep-2010
9:50:17 PM

Take your cordette and be proud. They are a piece of piss to use.

Don't listen to the nay sayers, they are all sport climbing nancy boys (a tautology I know, but some things need to be said twice)


IdratherbeclimbingM9

30-Sep-2010
10:00:58 PM

On 30/09/2010 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>Take your cordette and be proud. They are a piece of piss to use.
>
>Don't listen to the nay sayers, they are all sport climbing nancy boys
>(a tautology I know, but some things need to be said twice)

Laugh out loud!
I like it.
~> Good one ES


gordoste

30-Sep-2010
10:48:26 PM

On 30/09/2010 kieranl wrote:
>IMHO, un-tying and re-tying the rope is not a good practice for changing
>ends, especially for novices who are still trying to work out which end
>is up..
>Better to quickly flake the rope so the leader's end is back on top -
>I left this step out of the previous post..

I thought the original post said the rope was tied into the anchor (i.e. it connects the gear to the powerpoint krab). Did I read it wrong?


jkane

30-Sep-2010
11:13:35 PM

No, I'm pretty sure you are right. Swapping ends is still easier than re-tieing the anchors with the other end and re-flaking the rope.

Using a cordalette is even easier again - and less risky as has been mentioned. But as you said the original question was how lead 2 pitches in a row when the rope has been used to build the anchor.

martym

1-Oct-2010
5:54:27 AM

Hanging / semi-hanging / nice comfy ledge belay?

I love cord, often use it to tie around big boulders if not in the anchor. It's much cheaper to replace an 8m length of cord than a rope you've mangled by tying it in knots 100 times

Regarding the use of krabs, you should have a biner on each point anyway - otherwise you'd be tying into slings & dogbones??
So that suggestion works if you have to use the rope.


freesolo

1-Oct-2010
6:12:31 AM

ok, i'll weigh in whilst waiting for dinner to cook itself.

OP wants to know how to lead 2+ pitches in a row. well, when the leader (A) is at the first belay and bringing up (B), leader A flakes the rope across a sling, which runs from his/her body to the rock/anchor. Normally, when switching leads, the rope is flaked with long loops progressing to smaller loops so that if B is leading, he heads up the next pitch, A feeds out the rope from small loops to big to minimize snarls.

Now, in this case since A is re-leading, or leading again, A will flake the rope with small loops followed by large loops, back and forth across the sling. When B arrives and ties in to anchor, B will also set up a sling from body to rock/anchor.

KEY POINT: (A) carefully lifts the flaked rope up, flips it upside down over B's sling, such that the small loops are on top and large loops on bottom. A starts up, B feeds the rope out.

(important: this is easy to screw up, especially in high winds or really cramped belay stations.)

but it does work. it you screw it up, just reflake the bloody rope before A starts leading.

PS. cordelettes don't really weigh very much and come in handy for tying a splint around a broken limb, anchoring to a big tree (unless you like tree sap on your rope), and can be used doubled up as a sling for a meandering traverse or long roof, cutting in half for anchors if i have to bail for bad weather or injury. i'd rather have a cordelette and two power bars (same weight), than two power bars and no cordelette. i have yet to figure out a way to use a power bar for something other than eating. although i'm sure some of those nancy sport climbers in the bluies probably have.

mikllaw

1-Oct-2010
7:59:01 AM

I think the best thing is to have a lot of different options for doing the boring bits (setting up anchors, tying in, swapping leads etc)
-slings coredellette, or rope
-belaying off sticht plate, Munter, waist
-swing leads or block lead
-Climb past the belay and put in good gear to avoid the factor 2, then drop back down and belay

understand the important bits:-
-stay safe, avoid factor 2 falls, keep the rope untangled (more important in wind, on hanging, and on small belays)

Often it is better to belay early on a good stance and gear, than run out a long pitch and spend 20 miutes making a belay on a bad stance with average gear.
Hanging belays in cracks are awkward as the gear and all things hanging from it try and hang in the same spot.
Cordellettes are good for block leading (where 1 dude is leading a few pitches in a row) and on small compact belays, but for example on a poor trad belay where there is gear up to 6m above you will involve using some rope.

Better to have good gear and lower back down to a ledge than either have a hanging belay on good gear up high, or a bad belay on the ledge below. If you are leading the next pitch you can use that high Jesus nut as the first runner, if the second is leading through, you can belay them through it and it is their first runner. On trad I often do this, more so on Blue mtns sport where the belays are below the choss ledge below a roof.

Once the second is at the belay you can tie an overhand below the belay device. As they clip into bits of the belay or a cordelette; at some point they are safe enough to belay you. You are still safe as you have their rope tied below your belay plate so you are belaying them and they are belaying you. You can start to unhook, when they finally put you on, you take them off.

It's often safer for the second to clip all the gear to a sling (clipped to the belay) than to give each piece to the leader.


salty crag

1-Oct-2010
8:00:40 AM

I love multipitch and I looooove my snakesling, purists might scoff but it weighs next to nothing and is so versatile. Agree with the point on multi directional anchors, have seen some bomber anchors for first belay that would fail miserably once new leader moved above them. "Sometimes commonsense is the least most common of all senses"


gordoste

1-Oct-2010
2:08:06 PM

On 1/10/2010 mikllaw wrote:
>I think the best thing is to have a lot of different options for doing
>the boring bits (setting up anchors, tying in, swapping leads etc)
>-slings coredellette, or rope
>-belaying off sticht plate, Munter, waist
>-swing leads or block lead
>-Climb past the belay and put in good gear to avoid the factor 2, then
>drop back down and belay
>
>understand the important bits:-
>-stay safe, avoid factor 2 falls, keep the rope untangled (more important
>in wind, on hanging, and on small belays)
>

Absolutely agree. You might do something in a particular way most of the time but you need sufficient understanding and awareness to know when to deviate from your normal practice... like Mikl said if you can't find good gear at the belay then try climbing a bit higher.

My MO is to use a cordelette and alternate leads. I usually attach the belay device directly to the anchor and sit myself right next to the anchor to make belaying easy. Since I have an auto-blocking device I can shift the remaining gear from my harness to the anchor and tidy up the rope whenever the second stops to clean gear. (seriously if you are a trad climber and don't currently use an autoblocking device, buy one next time you need to replace your belay device, you'll never look back). But I do sometimes incorporate the rope into the belay if a piece is a long way up, or if I forgot my cordelette. And I do sometimes lead two pitches in a row if my partner chickens out of a pitch :)

Learn and try both, then decide for yourself.

One Day Hero

1-Oct-2010
2:15:20 PM

On 30/09/2010 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 30/09/2010 One Day Hero wrote:
>>Just add a second biner to each piece when you build the belay. The second
>>comes up and mimics your ropework with their rope underneath yours. Reflake
>>and go, no untying, no stupid big cordelettes identifying you as a bumbly,
>>easy.
>
>
>~> a good tip, though it requires carrying extra krabs!

Yeah, 3 extra krabs! That is one serious downside which I didn't consider?!?

One Day Hero

1-Oct-2010
2:51:45 PM

Wide...................how did we get from belay rigs to lesbians?

ianneilsen

2-Oct-2010
2:02:17 AM

I can't keep quiet..what is this issue with not using cordellette. those naysayers, sound like they have weight issues, haha, man you're not climbing in the alps on speed day accents..carry the cordellette.!

I can guarantee I could move quicker off a belay or into a belay using a sliding cordellette than using bunny ears with the ropes to anchors. wow..!

I agree with all lovers of cordellette. A)- it stands out as an anchor, not mixing with your ropes and provides a great sliding focal point, which allows you a little more comfort on a belay if hanging b)-its super light c)-it doubles as extenders for gear d)-can act as a prussik e)-doubles as a chess harness, if you need to rescue mate f)-it has pretty colour's to stare at while your bored at the belay.

widewetandslippery

2-Oct-2010
12:23:34 PM

On 1/10/2010 One Day Hero wrote:
>Wide...................how did we get from belay rigs to lesbians?

because I am very clever.


Billie W

2-Oct-2010
3:29:53 PM

He he nice I didnt even get it! maybe your right I carry cordette


IdratherbeclimbingM9

5-Oct-2010
12:48:38 PM

On 1/10/2010 One Day Hero wrote:
>Yeah, 3 extra krabs! That is one serious downside which I didn't consider?!?

>Re On 30/09/2010 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>>~> a good tip, though it requires carrying extra krabs!
>

Ahh the old interweb misunderstanding thing happening again here ODH...
The point I was making is not the number, but the fact that extra krabs help to facilitate your suggestion. I think you would agree with me that the new generation that some refer to as nancy boy sport climbers, are not often in the habit of carrying 'free' krabs on their rack, so my post was intended as a heads up for those who might find your tip useful.
☺


MrsM10iswhereitsat.

5-Oct-2010
5:09:01 PM

On 2/10/2010 widewetandslippery wrote:
>On 1/10/2010 One Day Hero wrote:
>>Wide...................how did we get from belay rigs to lesbians?
>
>because I am very clever.

I missed that bit dearie.
Please show me again.


Pat

5-Oct-2010
9:12:25 PM

On 2/10/2010 ianneilsen wrote:
>I can't keep quiet..what is this issue with not using cordellette. those
>naysayers, sound like they have weight issues, haha, man you're not climbing
>in the alps on speed day accents..carry the cordellette.!
>
>I can guarantee I could move quicker off a belay or into a belay using
>a sliding cordellette than using bunny ears with the ropes to anchors.
>wow..!
>
>I agree with all lovers of cordellette. A)- it stands out as an anchor,
>not mixing with your ropes and provides a great sliding focal point, which
>allows you a little more comfort on a belay if hanging b)-its super light
>c)-it doubles as extenders for gear d)-can act as a prussik e)-doubles
>as a chess harness, if you need to rescue mate f)-it has pretty colour's
>to stare at while your bored at the belay.

and g)if you are belaying a neewbie using a spectra cordellette it looks like you are using coloured shoestrings - great for confidence.
>
>

There are 37 messages in this topic.