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Descending off Multipitch?


Andrew_M

21-Sep-2010
10:22:01 AM

Gotta love an EDK argument...I'll bite.

Sometimes it is much more dangerous to get a rope stuck because you're using a double fisherman's than the tiny, but theoretically possible, chance of an overhand rolling off the end of a rope.

A lot of testing has been done on the "EDK" - equal diameters, unequal diameters, it doesn't matter - it is safe. Dress it well, leave long tails, and USE IT.

Besides, ehow.com recommends the overhand, so it must be right:

http://www.ehow.com/how_4473555_tie-rappelling-knots.html

On 20/09/2010 gfdonc wrote:
>European Death Knot. Refers to rapelling off double ropes that are tied
>together with a single overhand knot.
>Some people I know do this but I don't. Never do it with ropes of unequal
>diameter. Don't do it with wet or icy ropes either.
>There we go, I fulfilled another dave's prediction ..
>


cruze

21-Sep-2010
10:42:14 AM

I have used well-dressed overhands with long tails many many times and, whilst watching my climbing partner descend first (hehehehe), I have never even seen the knot slip a few cms. This includes ropes of unequal diameter (9.7 dry rope w 10.5 old fuzzy). Perhaps I would be more cautious using a 7mm dry rope...?

martym

21-Sep-2010
6:27:11 PM

You're reading John Long - that's a good start. Also most gear comes with instructions on best practice.
3 weeks in and you're asking about Trad Multipitch - beware, you're on the brink of changing your life forever!
I recommend having a farewell party, every dry weekend for the rest of your life is about to be spent searching for lines, fiddling in/out gear & either arguing over which rope to pull or which way is north.

Contrary to a lot of comments, I can think of many great climbs with abseil descents - and sometimes the pissfarting around with ropes is still a shorter way down than bushbashing in the hot sun and dirt. If you walk off, it means packing your shoes which sometimes is more annoying than you'd think.

Join a Uni club like RMIT or attend one of the VCC days. Once you've seen Arapiles, you'll never question your new hobby again.


MrsM10iswhereitsat.

5-Oct-2010
5:38:54 PM

On 20/09/2010 Mr hargs wrote:
>Get a competent person to show you. Then get them to make sure you're
>capable of performing these practical skills, preferably in a controlled
>environment. (That doesn't mean inside, by the way. You can have a perfectly
>well-controlled environment outside.) But you don't want to be figuring
>this sh*t out on your own, or 50m off the ground. If you make a mistake,
>you'll only have 1.7 seconds to work out what went wrong and that really
>won't be long enough.

Is that so dearie?
Is this the same as learning to aid climb while attempting to climb Ozymandias for the first time?

Derek my M10 love showed me that it is all about applying your critical thinking (read grey matter) to the problem at hand. So if one has half a modicum of common sense then they ought to be able to be 50 metres off the deck and still be able to work it out?


vwills

5-Oct-2010
8:39:03 PM

On 18/09/2010 nmonteith wrote:
>In Australia there is very very little multi-pitch climbing that requires
>you to descend via abseil down the same face you climbed up. Almost all
>of our cliffs have an easy walking track descent down the back side. If
>you have to descend the cliff via abseil there is usually a set of absiel
>anchors that are shared with many climbs on the same cliff. Its bad form
>to absield down the same route you went up -
>
>Climbing with double ropes is very common for multi-pitch climbing and
>are not an advanced skill in my opinion. Both ropes are usually a smaller
>diameter (ie 8mm intsead of 11mm) so it isn't as heavy as you might imagine.
>The double ropes can be used to absiel a full 50m pitch. They also have
>other advantages. For example if one rope gets cut or damaged then you
>have a backup rope. Another option is to use one rope to haul up the daypack
>full of water/food/shoes and one rope to lead on.
>
>I strongly advise getting some in person tuition from a guide or experienced
>climber before putting any of this in to practice!

Does this sound familiar Neil: )....set off in rain, neglect to look at descent in guide, have only one rope, abseil in the dark, end up stuck 5m above belay tree, create potentially dodgy anchor, sacrifice bolt plate and biner, and stumble down path in dark.
Great times. Multipitching is easy on a wet day in the Wolgan. For booty hunters gear left around arete from Cactus


nmonteith

5-Oct-2010
8:48:39 PM

On 5/10/2010 vwills wrote:
>Does this sound familiar Neil: )....set off in rain, neglect to look at
>descent in guide, have only one rope, abseil in the dark, end up stuck
>5m above belay tree, create potentially dodgy anchor, sacrifice bolt plate
>and biner, and stumble down path in dark.
>Great times. Multipitching is easy on a wet day in the Wolgan. For booty
>hunters gear left around arete from Cactus

Fun times! I didn't think about calling a rescue even once!

hargs

7-Oct-2010
9:55:49 PM

On 5/10/2010 MrsM10iswhereitsat. wrote:
>On 20/09/2010 Mr hargs wrote:
>>Get a competent person to show you...
>
>Is that so dearie?
>Is this the same as learning to aid climb while attempting to climb Ozymandias
>for the first time?

Well MrsM10iswhereitsat, someone's been paying attention. But attempting Ozy for the first time is a bit different than attempting Ozy for your first climb. And common sense tends to clear out when fear and panic arrive.


MrsM10iswhereitsat.

8-Oct-2010
2:21:33 AM

That can be very true Mr hargs, but once you have a bag of tricks, the great unknown can become a little more controlled, unless of course, you are a boulderer, in which case it doesn't matter.

There are 28 messages in this topic.