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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 12 of 12. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 200 | 201 to 220 | 221 to 235
Author
OT: Rebelious reopening of locked topic

greenrandom
7/09/2010
8:06:29 AM
I would think there are many people who were not born in a marriage these days, or even conceived through the traditional method. I also doubt the human population would become extinct if two consenting adults of the same sex were allowed to become married. Maybe they shouldn't get married in a church if it doesn't fit with the religion of that church (although murderers and other criminals who break the church law have been allowed to get married in a church for some reason) but marriage isn't the sole property of the catholic church and there are many different types/definitions for marriage. Even amongst the different branches of the Catholic Church. I donít know how it can be seen in the same context as paedophilia or bestiality either the main difference I can see between them is that a gay marriage is between two consenting adults where as with paedophilia or bestiality it's not.
TonyB
7/09/2010
8:29:17 AM
On 3/09/2010 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 25/08/2010 simey wrote:
>On one level yes; but I have also noticed / observed in others, that in
>the latter years i.e. maybe older than the 'old' context you are using,
>that some people go back to religion with a questioning attitude. This
>may be related directly to their sense of frailty/mortality?
>
>>I'm amazed I didn't question such fairy tale nonsense during all those
>years I went to church as a youngster.

I think it's a need to feel safe. When people start to look death in the face, through age or illness, they may start look for something to hang onto. This crutch is often religion.

Young people also need to feel safe. Following their parents is essential to survive. I think this blind faith is easily transferred to others in authority. At some point hopefully the person starts to stand on their own feet and to question everything.

I don't think that many achieve real independent thinking. John Nash was a great example of a true independent thinker. He refused to read text books in school because he felt they would influence his thinking. Of course he went mad but eventually crossed back from schizophrenia and won the Nobel Prize.

nmonteith
7/09/2010
11:58:39 AM
http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/stephanie-rice-asked-to-give-back-her-jag-20100907-14yh6.html?autostart=1

Sabu
7/09/2010
12:24:18 PM
Ouch!

Just as well I'm not in the limelight, with my taste in humour I'd be doomed, as would most climbers I reckon!
simey
7/09/2010
1:19:37 PM
On 7/09/2010 nmonteith wrote:
>http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/stephanie-rice-asked-to-give-back-her-jag-20100907-14yh6.html?autostart=1

Foolish comments by Stephanie but a good move by Jaguar to take advantage of the situation. Jaguar's photos of hot looking Stephanie modelling one of their cars are now splashed across the media. It certainly made me take notice... great curves.

The good Dr
7/09/2010
4:24:59 PM
I think Ms Rice may have been making a reference to them being a little like ....

http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews103946.html

dave h.
7/09/2010
4:55:00 PM
On 3/09/2010 One Day Hero wrote:
>Does the lack of proof not bother you at all?

Thanks for your kind words.

In response, last Sunday the minister at my church explained Aristotle's view that people believe things for a combination of these three reasons: - intellectual, emotional, and social. He was quite prepared to concede that most Christians believe for a mixture of the three reasons, but he also suggested that it's a bit high-handed for atheists to assert that their reasons for unbelief are purely intellectual.

On the subject of proof specifically - I've tried to talk a little bit about the historical evidence earlier in the thread. In that discussion of proof/evidence I neglected to mention the subjective emotional/spiritual experience as proof - I didn't talk about it there because it's not the sort of evidence that people generally find persuasive or cceptable. But it's evidence that I can consider when deciding for myself whether or not I believe.

Off the top of my head, the justifications for my belief are personal experience (emotional), historical - eg the correlation between extrabiblical sources and the gospels (intellectual), physical - fine-tuning of universal constants (intellectual), and biological - biogenesis. I don't expect everyone agrees with each of these reasons. And when each is examined in isolation they are weak. I think that when you add all of these individual reasons up, you'll start to see why theists don't regard their belief as irrational or unproven. It's not proved absolutely, but for me there's sufficient proof.

And I guess all of us get to decide just what constitutes sufficient proof.


On 7/09/2010 TonyB wrote:
>I don't think that many achieve real independent thinking. John Nash
>was a great example of a true independent thinker. He refused to read text
>books in school because he felt they would influence his thinking.

The opposite view has also been held by great thinkers - cf Newton's comment, "If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."

How independent do you have to be to be an "independent thinker"? Sure Nash did some good stuff (Nash equilibria). Nash's attitude might also be seen as arrogant, and reflecting a belief that there was nothing for him to learn in textbooks.

There's no strict dichotomy between "independent thinkers" and "drones who swallow the information they're spoon-fed." We all take some things on trust (a while ago I met a philosophy student doing her Phd on epistomological trust, which is basically this idea that we don't need to investigate from first principles). Most of us take the vast majority of modern science on faith, despite not going to the trouble of repeating the experiments ourself.

Personally I think Newton's view is preferable, for two reasons - pragmatism and truth.

Pragmatism: if our predecessors have made discoveries, and verified them in a valid way, and the theories they put forward are still working for us, why on earth should we expend all our energy deriving the same results from first principles/repeating experiments?

Truth: I think it reflects the way we live more realistically. Generally we're happy to stand on the shoulders of aeronautical engineers, medicinal chemists, plumbers, carpenters, welders, etc. We neither reject everything we are told, nor accept every explanation uncritically. Some things we consider contentious (for whatever reason), and these things attract our scepticism more. I think this is good, as I like modern plumbing but don't know much about how pumps work. :)

IdratherbeclimbingM9
7/09/2010
7:47:25 PM
On 7/09/2010 dave h. wrote:
>I like modern plumbing but don't know much about how pumps work. :)

I can tell you this much...
The crappy legislation that dictates for new hot water systems (no matter how eco-friendly), thou shalt have hot water at not more than 50 degrees C, does not work well with independent (read rural based), pressure pumps!

Thereyago!,savedmyselfpostingthistothep'doffthread!
rod
7/09/2010
8:00:00 PM
I thought you had to keep it at 60C+ to stop bacteria problems

IdratherbeclimbingM9
7/09/2010
8:13:03 PM
On 7/09/2010 rod wrote:
>I thought you had to keep it at 60C+ to stop bacteria problems

I have no idea about that, but I do know that since I replaced my mains electric hot water with solar, and they fitted the dreaded compulsory device that limits hot water supply to max 50 degrees (by mixing cold water with the hot water flow), the extra bends in the pipework system, and interference mixing, have effectively crueled the amount of hot water pressure at any outlet...

Removal of same is seriously being considered! ... ~> as I have reached my age without being scalded, and reckon I can do so for a bit longer!!!
Blerrie do-gooder legislative types that live in bureaucratic towers in capital cities, mutter, mutter, rhubarb, rhubarb!)
rod
7/09/2010
8:19:29 PM
the mixing of the cold water explanation deals with my query, good luck with solving your problem sounds like a good way to waste a lot of time :)

IdratherbeclimbingM9
7/09/2010
8:31:48 PM
On 7/09/2010 rod wrote:
>the mixing of the cold water explanation deals with my query, good luck
>with solving your problem sounds like a good way to waste a lot of time
>:)

and $'s...






















How was that for a completely off topic hijack of an off topic thread?
Heh, heh, heh.
lacto
7/09/2010
10:22:04 PM

>
>I can tell you this much...
>The crappy legislation that dictates for new hot water systems (no matter
>how eco-friendly), thou shalt have hot water at not more than 50 degrees
>C, does not work well with independent (read rural based), pressure pumps!
>
>Thereyago!,savedmyselfpostingthistothep'doffthread!

I have evacuated tubes that preheat water before going into an electric hot water that then heats to 90 to 95 degrees for the dairy . In summer I can heat 1600 litres up to 75 degrees . for the house i have a rinnai gas booster that will stop circulating the water through the collectors at 65 degrees . disconnect the mixer of cold water . so sfar we have needed the gas booster for about 10 days
TonyB
8/09/2010
9:35:01 AM
On 7/09/2010 dave h. wrote:
>The opposite view has also been held by great thinkers - cf Newton's comment,
>"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of
>giants."

I won't argue with that. Nash was something of an exception as a pure independent thinker. Most technology and science has been built on the work of others. I've always felt that the printing press was one of the greatest of all inventions because it stimulated technology by dissemination and growth of information.

gordoste
8/09/2010
1:46:58 PM
On 8/09/2010 TonyB wrote:
>On 7/09/2010 dave h. wrote:
>>The opposite view has also been held by great thinkers - cf Newton's
>comment,
>>"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of
>>giants."
>
>I won't argue with that. Nash was something of an exception as a pure
>independent thinker. Most technology and science has been built on the
>work of others. I've always felt that the printing press was one of the
>greatest of all inventions because it stimulated technology by dissemination
>and growth of information.

Printing press: cost of producing a book vastly reduced
Internet: cost of copying things goes from linear to infinitesimal

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There are 235 messages in this topic.

 

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