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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 36
Author
Getting to the top is all that's important
Duncan
3/06/2010
10:05:34 AM
http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web10s/newswire-david-lama-compressor-bolts

It's all good though, because he was trying to achieve his dream, am I right?

EJ
3/06/2010
10:14:46 AM
The true hilarity can be found at the comments at the end of the article ... classic! Maybe Gerry N. can shift his sights to Cerro Torre in his pursuit of pureness.
egosan
3/06/2010
10:17:55 AM
What a bunch of tools. Maybe they should have seen Scream of Stone first. A little lesson in climbing for the right reason.
widewetandslippery
3/06/2010
11:10:16 AM
Lamas comments come across as spoken by someone young and heavily influenced by the Red Bull machine. This is not to excuse him but maybe explain. I hardly imagine he personally was placing bolts. He and a bunch of old hands got a free meal ticket to Cerro Torre and paid the price for having to do what they were told. No such thing as a free lunch.

The good Dr
3/06/2010
11:26:13 AM
On 3/06/2010 egosan wrote:
>What a bunch of tools. Maybe they should have seen Scream of Stone first.
> A little lesson in climbing for the right reason.

... and acting for the wrong reasons!

cruze
3/06/2010
11:50:26 AM
On 3/06/2010 Duncan wrote:
>http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web10s/newswire-david-lama-compressor-bolts
>
>It's all good though, because he was trying to achieve his dream, am I
>right?

Learn to let go Duncan. Seriously, your replies in the thread about John and the 13 yo that summitted Everest, and the subsequent responses to your questioning (stating) that Everest is easy indicates that amongst us Chockstone posers you were in a minority.

This story does not support your position there. The only similarity between the two stories is the reaffirmation that ethics are bendable. Sometimes they bend to the point of a 13 yo being guided/supported up a mountain to chase his dreams (which has been done many many times to older people since Everest's FA), and on other occasions they are bent to the point of breaking by a publicity machine rolling right on over the ethics of one of the most elusive and sought after peaks in Mountaineering so that someone's dreams may detract from the dreams of many others. The Red Bull story provides a precedent, or at least supports a highly controversial precedent, for installing a lot of fixed gear on the mountain even where other opportunities for protection are present and leaving fixed ropes on a mountain between seasons with the possibility that the weather and motivation the following season will be favourable. Ethically, universally, that isn't cool.

BTW And please someone correct me or show me how ignorant I am, but from my brief experience with Patagonian South America (esp Arg) earlier this year, and from the 5 days I spent around El Chalten, I would be highly surprised if the Parks administration wouldn't accept a bit of money on the side for "allowing bolting"... Development down there is outta control.
Duncan
3/06/2010
12:06:01 PM
I was worried no one would bite.
egosan
3/06/2010
12:11:07 PM
On 3/06/2010 The good Dr wrote:
>
>... and acting for the wrong reasons!

Can't blame the actors for the script, matie. Abysmal is the word to use.


edit---

Sh!t, Red Bull got to Stefan first.



Damn you Redbull! Damn you to hell!
Duncan
3/06/2010
1:11:02 PM
On 3/06/2010 cruze wrote:
>This story does not support your position there.

My "position" was that it's not just the doing that is important, but the manner in which it was done.

MisterGribble
3/06/2010
1:13:03 PM
Product placement that would shame even James Bond films.

But there again, 'there's only one thing worse than being talked about and that's .....'
Duncan
3/06/2010
1:42:08 PM
I changed the title, so we can make this a broader discussion. Here's another little piece that some may find interesting:

http://backcountrybeacon.com/2010/06/everest-a-climbers-rant/comment-page-1/#comment-8662

Read the article, and Mark Twight's comment at the end.

I'll leave you with a quote: "...because how you got there was more important than just getting there..." Lito Tejada-Flores (author of "Games Climbers Play").

The good Dr
3/06/2010
1:58:50 PM
On 3/06/2010 egosan wrote:
>On 3/06/2010 The good Dr wrote:
>>
>>... and acting for the wrong reasons!
>
>Can't blame the actors for the script, matie. Abysmal is the word to
>use.
>

True, but you can blame the actors for reading the script and deciding that it is a good idea to do the film!! I heard a rumor the the Red Bull foray was actually to get some background shots for 'Scream of Stone II'. Stefan will reprise the role due to his ties with Red Bull, David is the new kid on the block.
dmnz
3/06/2010
2:02:53 PM
I've read that ages ago and I believe in the importance of both style/ethics in my own climbing but 1/ it's not relevant re John's effort and 2/ still don't appreciate your efforts to throw cold water on John's efforts.

I don't even know John but I've had mates who have only gotten to the top of a mountain/climb cos they were guided. They know what they did and didnt do. They understand the difference between climbing the thing and being guided up it. I also have mates who go out and do their own thing, put up new lines, whatever. so what.

If it's not your thing you don't have to do it. You don't need to belittle someone else's efforts.

Breathe in breathe out. Let it go. Find it in you to be a bigger person than that.
Duncan
3/06/2010
2:25:09 PM
OK kids, we've moved on. I've done as some people asked in the other thread and started a new thread about ethics, because apparently thread drift is only acceptable in certain cases. Are we down with that? Can we dig it? OK, hopefully we have now established that this is a separate thread.

Look at the two links I posted and comment as you see fit, or don't. I still don't think ANYONE getting guided up Everest with supplemental oxygen is a particularly laudable achievement because I think the it's important to do things in good style, and getting dragged up something you couldn't otherwise do is not good style by my books. My friends call me out and don't congratulate me if I dab on a boulder problem, or pull on a draw on a sport route - as well they should - because it's not good style.

So here, repeated for those in the cheap seats, is my argument: it's not just the doing that is important, it's how you did it. If you still can't understand that, I suggest you stick to flogging ridiculous amounts of barely used gear.

ajfclark
3/06/2010
2:37:38 PM
I don't think it matters that you dabbed on your boulder problem, unless you say you got it clean. Your claims and your style should line up.

Yes, an ascent without o2 is better style (or more difficult) than one with o2 but so long as they aren't claiming they did it without o2 when they used o2 what's the issue? Likewise with onsights, redpoints, pinkpoints, etc. So long as you don't claim to have done something you haven't done, who cares?
dmnz
3/06/2010
2:37:44 PM
Mate I have no issues with you personally just don't appreciate you dissing on someone else like you have.

Some people have issues with people who boulder or sport climb or take the easy route/s up a mountain, whatever. To each their own so long as they don't try to get me to do it. And it's good to see that you care about the style of your own climbing. But just because you don't agree with their style doesn't mean you need to sit on your high horse. I just don't go on the trips that don't interest me (be it the objective or style). That is MY point.

To make it clear to you again I agree with you that the how IS more important. Apply it your own climbing and have fun.

dmnz
3/06/2010
2:41:56 PM
And to some people, namely Chounaird, sport climbing isn't even climbing because you take out the inherent risk and reduce it to rock gymnastics so don't go out and glorify bouldering/sport climbing as all that there is out there. If that's what you want to do great if not dont do it. Nuf said.

And yes I agree too, Clarky

tnd
3/06/2010
3:29:34 PM
I enjoy Red Bull and will continue to drink it.

gordoste
3/06/2010
3:34:37 PM
Way to set up a straw man Duncan. Of course no-one thinks that what happened on Cerro Torre is acceptable. But that doesn't mean we all agree that a 13-year-old's ascent of Everest is not worth any respect. Yes there are similarities but there are also several important differences which you conveniently didn't mention.
I don't think anyone is trying to say that the young kid who climbed Everest is the next Messner - but that doesn't mean we can't give him a bit of credit. When was the last time you achieved something that took 4 years of effort?

cruze
3/06/2010
4:07:22 PM
On 3/06/2010 Duncan wrote:
>I still don't think ANYONE getting guided up Everest with supplemental
>oxygen is a particularly laudable achievement because I think the it's
>important to do things in good style, and getting dragged up something
>you couldn't otherwise do is not good style by my books. My friends call
>me out and don't congratulate me if I dab on a boulder problem, or pull
>on a draw on a sport route - as well they should - because it's not good
>style.

I assume when you boulder you don't use chalk and shoes and you crawl from your home to the crag. And what's with sport climbing? That rock did nothing to you and now you are supporting those that want to go drilling holes in it to make it easier for you?

Shame shame shame. Back in your hole troll.

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There are 36 messages in this topic.

 

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