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John Kazanas summits Everest


nmonteith

28-May-2010
1:58:13 PM

On 28/05/2010 wallwombat wrote:
>I think the main point of this thread was to congratulate a fellow Chockstone
>member on achieving something that was obviously a dream of his. It wasn't
>to say "Wow, someone climbed Everest. That's amazing!".

Exactly! Lots of us here know John well both online and offline - and have climbed with him for years. He's been busting his gut working up to this dream...

If the knockers could just list their own greatest climbing moment in the last 6 months - we can all then critique that as well if you like...


cruze

28-May-2010
2:18:38 PM

On 28/05/2010 wallwombat wrote:
>It's always a good thing when someone realises one of dreams, no matter
>what those dreams may be.

Spot on.

Duncan

28-May-2010
2:22:07 PM

I'm just surprised that no one has used the phrase "tall poppy syndrome" yet. Honestly, you people are slipping.

What reason is there to want to climb Everest? It's not particularly aesthetic. It's not easy to get to. It's not, as evidenced by the fact that a 13 yo has done it, that difficult. The only reason that I can see to want to climb it is that it's the highest mountain in the world. Is there some other reason? Motivation is important. The "because it's there" argument doesn't cut it.

mik

28-May-2010
2:34:53 PM

sounds like someone feels threatened by the achievements of a 13yo and a local bloke.

well done john, everest is huge preparation, big effort and a damn big hill.

A lot of ppl climb because they choose something then go and climb it. maybe your motivations are being revealed as you assume them upon other people.

jealousy and envy often emerge as "critique" or opinion.

cant wait to have a go at something in the himalaya myself.

28-May-2010
2:45:04 PM

I'm super psyched for John, especially now reports are in that the group is safe and well at ABC. well done mate.


wallwombat

28-May-2010
2:49:15 PM

On 28/05/2010 Duncan wrote:
>What reason is there to want to climb Everest?

Who knows and why does it matter?

John obviously had a reason. You would have to ask him.

Maybe he wanted to check out the view.

I don't think it's a case of Tall Poppy Syndrome that you have here, Duncan. I think it is simply an inability to recognise the people have different dreams and do things for different reasons. Just because you , personally, can't relate to someone else's dream does not make their dream less valid or worthwhile.

You say "It's not particularly aesthetic." but surely you recognise that is your point of view. John and others who climb Everest, obviously, feel differently. Aesthetics are a very personal thing.

What's your climbing dream?

I'm sure there are people who find it hard to relate that, just as you seem to find it hard to relate to John's.

Imposing your values onto other people is pointless. Always.

SteveH

28-May-2010
2:55:06 PM

On 28/05/2010 Duncan wrote:
>I'm just surprised that no one has used the phrase "tall poppy syndrome"
>yet. Honestly, you people are slipping.
>
>What reason is there to want to climb Everest? It's not particularly
>aesthetic. It's not easy to get to. It's not, as evidenced by the fact
>that a 13 yo has done it, that difficult. The only reason that I can see
>to want to climb it is that it's the highest mountain in the world. Is
>there some other reason? Motivation is important. The "because it's there"
>argument doesn't cut it.

Whilst I agree with your sentiments about Mt Everest and the conquering attitude non-climbers (and I suppose, some climbers) have towards it, I must digress and bring to your attention the achievements of some of the young folk of the climbing world.

I don't think a 13y/o's ascent should be regarded as not difficult because they are only 13. Excuse my old links and examples, as I am out of the loop these days, and am sure there are other youngsters out there achieving stuff like Chris Sharma, Katie Brown and the examples below have. I would be stoked to tick even a small percentage of their warm-up lists! Not really having a go, more sharing the impressive (and sometimes, surely, not healthily so) things young climbers can achieve. Cheers.

Charlotte Durif - 5.13's aged 11, 5.13d in one day on her 14th B'day
http://www.climbing.com/news/hotflashes/durifstar/
http://www.8a.nu/?IncPage=http%3A//www.8a.nu/user/Profile.aspx%3FUserId%3D5571

David Lama - 8a aged 10, 8b aged 11, 8b+ aged 12, 8c aged 13, and 8c aged 14. At 15 the youngest person to compete in a world cup
http://www.redbull.com/cs/Satellite/en_INT/Profile/David-Lama-021242756027311
http://www.climbandmore.com/climbing,2,0,1,interviews.html

Cicada Jenerik - 8 y/o girl sends V7
http://www.camp4.com/rock/index.php?newsid=310

Scott Cory - Youngest American to onsight 5.13a aged 10. Half dome in a day aged 13. The Nose in a day aged 11
http://www.e-boreal.com/Us/Html/portada/portada/noticia32.htm

Duncan

28-May-2010
3:03:07 PM

This isn't about me, or even about John. I'm questioning whether climbing the "world's highest garbage dump" is really a laudable achievement. I thought you grey-beards cared about ethics. Apparently not.

Duncan

28-May-2010
3:16:14 PM

Point taken Steve - but you and I know that what those kids have done is way more badass than climbing Everest - a guide can't get you up a sport route that would otherwise be too hard for you. Joe Average doesn't know that. The oldest person to climb Everest was 75 (albeit an astoundingly badass 75 yo). If you or I had the money, inclination and were lucky with the weather, we could do it, no doubt.

Congratulations to John, you did something you wanted to do. I was asking whether other climbers thought that climbing Everest was a worthy goal/something to aspire to. Some people wanted to have a go at me and ignore that question - that's cool.

One Day Hero

28-May-2010
3:17:36 PM

Yeah, I don't think I'd enjoy the Everest thing, mostly cos I don't like standing in queues and fighting for routes. Much like The Nose, it's something I would dearly love to climb if everyone else would please fcuk off.......Given that they probably won't, I'm content to jump on the thousand other routes which are less famous but just as cool.

If other folk want to suffer through an ugly reality in order to pursue their fantasy, its fine with me. Concentrating the traffic on famous routes leaves all the other good ones in usable condition for people with taste :)


Sabu

28-May-2010
3:30:10 PM

On 28/05/2010 Duncan wrote:
>Congratulations to John, you did something you wanted to do. I was asking
>whether other climbers thought that climbing Everest was a worthy goal/something
>to aspire to. Some people wanted to have a go at me and ignore that question
>- that's cool.
Well the way you posed the question came accross as though were belittling Johns achievement on the basis that you don't see the point in trying.

On 28/05/2010 Duncan wrote:
>This isn't about me, or even about John. I'm questioning whether climbing
>the "world's highest garbage dump" is really a laudable achievement. I
>thought you grey-beards cared about ethics. Apparently not.
I see what you're getting at but this thread is (at least was) about John and congratulating him rather than debating the commercialisation of Everest.


wallwombat

28-May-2010
3:48:16 PM

On 28/05/2010 One Day Hero wrote:
>Yeah, I don't think I'd enjoy the Everest thing, mostly cos I don't like
>standing in queues and fighting for routes. Much like The Nose, it's something
>I would dearly love to climb if everyone else would please fcuk off.......Given
>that they probably won't, I'm content to jump on the thousand other routes
>which are less famous but just as cool.
>
>If other folk want to suffer through an ugly reality in order to pursue
>their fantasy, its fine with me. Concentrating the traffic on famous routes
>leaves all the other good ones in usable condition for people with taste
>:)

That's exactly how I feel about it but mainly because I hate crowds..

Chris Warner, who also summited the other day is a much harder climber than I'll ever be and Everest was obviously a big goal for him. Just because I don't really relate to that, doesn't mean it's not a worthy goal.

On 28/05/2010 Duncan wrote:
>......... you and I know that what those kids have done is
>way more badass than climbing Everest - a guide can't get you up a sport
>route that would otherwise be too hard for you.

You're not going to die from cerebral oedema climbing, altitude sickness or lose all your fingers and toes climbing Realization or Action Direct, are you.

You might get a flapper.

silver_13

28-May-2010
4:42:12 PM

On 28/05/2010 Duncan wrote:
>Point taken Steve - but you and I know that what those kids have done is
>way more badass than climbing Everest - a guide can't get you up a sport
>route that would otherwise be too hard for you.

A guide can't get you up mt Everest either, you need to do it yourself. With a lot of help from guides,porters, oxygen... but still you have to walk on your own.

> If you or I had the money, inclination and were lucky with
>the weather, we could do it, no doubt.

This could be why some people do it, to prove to themselves that they can.
By the way, noone can be sure at any point they'll climb mt Everest or any big mountain. High altitude can be cruel.

>Congratulations to John, you did something you wanted to do. I was asking
>whether other climbers thought that climbing Everest was a worthy goal/something
>to aspire to. Some people wanted to have a go at me and ignore that question
>- that's cool.

I think most are in agreement that although going up mt. Everest is not an outstanding event in the climbing world anymore, its still a worthy personal achievement.


bluey

28-May-2010
8:49:28 PM

For feck's sake. Clearly it's a fine effort by John, congratulations.

No he's not Edmund Hillary but he's done something that not many can lay claim to, and that many plonkers stuck at a desk only dream of.

Well done John for dreaming AND doing.

28-May-2010
10:40:17 PM

Last time I checked Everest was still just as tall as it was back in '53 and there's no roads in the whole district of Solokhumbu, let alone emergency services and hospitals. A bit different to your average roadside crank-fest, which is a completely different kind of challenge. The route is no doubt a bit better known these days and the equipment has improved with technology, but still an impressive feat. Doing anything at high altitude is hard, very hard - well done John! Now back to dreaming at my desk... ;-)

gfdonc

28-May-2010
11:26:45 PM

Yes it's odd how my simple and innocence message of congratulations has morphed into something rather different in nature. Of course, philosophy, climbing and the Internet are natural bedfellows, but you might not be too happy when you find out who you wake up next to in the morning.

I know John. I don't know him well, but I have known him for a few years, and we have climbed a bit together, including a stint at Mt Buller one winter. He was dead keen so we drove up the night before and bivvied at the base, then got up while it was dark to beat a path up the road before the ticket-issuing authorities were awake. Then, forgoing the possibility of a chair ride, we hacked our way up wind-blown crust to the summit. He was making the most of the time he had, and not taking the easy way out.

John has taken a hard path to reach an objective that, as you say, is still just as high, cold and unstable as it was a century ago. I can only add that a good friend of mine, and a better climber than most people I've met, perished on that mountain many years ago. About 2 years ago John attempted Pumori but cancelled his summit launch day to help evacuate a climber who was seriously injured. In between I know he has worked hard on his fitness to try to ensure he was in a suitable state to make it. I'm not surprised he has succeeded given the dedication and hard work that he has put into it.

That alone deserves recognition. We should all be so fortunate to set ourselves an ambitious challenge, make the sacrifices, and succeed. Not everyone will see the point in summiting Everest. For John, this was his aim. For others, it might be ticking some bolted sport route, or kayaking around Tasmania. For me, at the tender age of 48, I've decided to get up from my desk and climb El Cap. Will it be remarkable? No, I'll probably struggle my way to the top and be exhausted after 4 days when some have done it in less than 3 hours. Will it be unique? No, not when dozens, if not hundreds, climb the route every year.

Yet that is hardly the point. You each get to choose what you want to strive for. It is a notable achievement when someone becomes determined to test their limits, and succeeds. The odds of John getting to the summit were no doubt higher than they were 50 years ago, but I still recognise and acknowledge he made every step of that journey under his own steam.

dmnz

28-May-2010
11:35:50 PM

On 28/05/2010 Duncan wrote:
> If you or I had the money, inclination and were lucky with
>the weather, we could do it, no doubt.

Actions speak louder (if you have gone and done it Duncan and found it easy then you can talk, but really no, conditions are what makes each ascent totally different) and sour grapes don't taste that nice last I checked

Whatever floats your boat I reckon

Arlee

29-May-2010
1:19:33 AM

I agree - I don't think you can place an objective standard on all Everest ascents (or any achievement for that matter) - it is what it is for the individual who achieves it and that is all that matters. I know John and saw how much hard work he put into achieving this so am thrilled for him. And coming from me, a non-moutaineer and pretty average climber, I think it's a fabulous effort.


bluey

29-May-2010
8:05:13 AM

Here here to the last few posts.

I'm all for robust and open discussion, but belittling an achievement noted in a "congratulations" thread to one in our community is just, well, pretty crap IMO.

To the naysayers, you saw a happy congratulations msg and then decided to pick holes in it...maybe ask yourself why that seemed like an important thing to do.

One day Hero

29-May-2010
3:02:58 PM

On 28/05/2010 gfdonc wrote:
> For me, at the tender age of 48, I've decided to get
>up from my desk and climb El Cap. Will it be remarkable? No, I'll probably
>struggle my way to the top and be exhausted after 4 days when some have
>done it in less than 3 hours. Will it be unique? No, not when dozens,
>if not hundreds, climb the route every year.
>
...........and if you're very fortunate, you'll make it up the route without anyone pissing or shitting on you :)

I wish you good luck!

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