Goto Chockstone Home

  Guide
  Gallery
  Tech Tips
  Articles
  Reviews
  Dictionary
  Links
  Forum
  Search
  About

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

  Shop

Black Diamond: SET of 8 "C4" Cams and 8 matching wire gates. Sizes .3 .4 .5 .75 1 2 3 & 4 and 8 anodised "neutrino" - wire gate karabiners.   $625.00
20% Off

Chockstone Photography Australian Landscape Photography by Michael Boniwell
Australian Landscape Prints





Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Poll Option Votes Graph
Athiest 90
69% 
Buddhist 5
4% 
Christian 23
18% 
Muslim 1
1% 
Jewish 1
1% 
Hindu 1
1% 
Other 8
6% 
Don't know due too many choices. 2
2% 

 Page 2 of 11. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 200 | 201 to 206
Author
O.T - Religion & Climbing Poll.
NMcKinnon
4/12/2009
12:29:39 AM
I wonder how many of us atheists start praying when 15m run-out above an RP in an expando flake?

Anyways buddhism can't help you in this situation either because it preaches that "concepts of a substantial Self are incorrect and formed in the realm of ignorance."


foreverabumbly
4/12/2009
12:32:35 AM
this thread is starting to toe the line,

And its claimed that religious people are the ones that are not tolerent. Can we please stop the insulting cause this bullshit is rude and disrespectful.

Sabu
4/12/2009
12:50:41 AM
On 3/12/2009 kieranl wrote:
>I'm attracted to the notion that religious belief is a usually mild form
>of mental illness that is fairly benign and possibly even beneficial for
>many people. However there are a significant number of people who suffer
>a severe form of the malady. Maybe someday someone will get a Nobel prize
>for medicine for producing a cure for it.

By that logic homosexuality (for example) is also an illness as it represents a deviation
from the norm (abnormal, like any mental illness), can range mild to flamboyant and is
possibly beneficial to many people!
More importantly there is also much more evidence suggesting differences in brain
structure and function in homosexuals vs heterosexuals than there are in atheists vs
theists, suggesting a biological component in addition to the psychosocial factors. Given
a biological component there may even be a cure! (i'm not holding my breath but the
chances are better than your suggestion :P)
So which one is the disease then? If one had to choose, based on the evidence, the one
with brain abnormalities / differences would be the logical option.
The answer? Neither, as neither cause pathological or significant, impairment in
neurological, social or occupational functioning.

This is tongue in cheek, but I stress that if you were to start throwing disease or disorder
labels around due to it being "abnormal" then you better include some other behaviours
as well like the aforementioned! Hell even most of us here would classify as "mentally ill"
given we're abnormal for actively involving ourselves in an "extreme sport" like climbing!

BTW, I like how you've unknowingly jumped into the ferocious pit that is the debate
between normal and abnormal human behaviour! :P

evanbb
4/12/2009
7:09:43 AM
On 4/12/2009 foreverabumbly wrote:

>Can we please stop the insulting cause this bullshit is rude and disrespectful.

Do you think? I haven't been offended by anything here yet. Maybe I've got a high threshold?

But also, I strongly believe that if you're going to believe in something, you better be prepared to have that belief challenged. No problems if after everything is said and done you still think a giant spaghetti monster created the universe, but you better be ready to have questions asked about how you reached that conclusion. For your own sake if nothing else.

Climboholic
4/12/2009
7:29:28 AM
On 3/12/2009 Wendy wrote:
>The list changes everytime I look at it!

Can others modify a poll that I've started? I started it before leaving work yesterday, eagerly anticipating the flurry of debate to keep me occupied for a couple of hours. When I checked it this morning the title had changed and an extra option added.

Climboholic
4/12/2009
7:48:03 AM
On 3/12/2009 stugang wrote:
>Wow! You want to know something weird - over 70 percent of chockstoners
>have above average intelligence.
>
>Surely some of you believe you will come back as a wabbit or a pweddy
>flower?

You know what? You bring up an interesting point. In the 2006 census 18.7% of Australians selected 'No religion' (atheiest and agnostic). Does this mean that climbers are significantly more intelligent than the general population?

To throw fuel on the fire: Do people think we are evolving in this direction?

Climboholic
4/12/2009
7:55:20 AM

wallwombat
4/12/2009
8:07:04 AM

>On 4/12/2009 foreverabumbly wrote:
>
>>Can we please stop the insulting cause this bullshit is rude and disrespectful.

>On 4/12/2009 evanbb wrote:
>
>Do you think? I haven't been offended by anything here yet.

I'm with you, evanb. I haven't found any reply offensive yet.

Mind you, widewetandslippery hasn't posted yet.

I see little difference, between, say, trad climbers bagging out sport climbers, sport climbers and trad climbers bagging out aid climbers and everyone bagging out boulderers to any of this religious bagging and bantering.

And considering this is a climbers forum, I don't really think anything said, so far on this thread, is rude or disrespectful enough.


Fish Boy
4/12/2009
8:53:46 AM
Sabu, you are mixing biology with psychology...
Wendy
4/12/2009
9:06:05 AM
Such a nice juicy topic ... where to start?

Firstly, I can see where some people could get offended (and i figure at least 1 person has been offended or he wouldn't have mentioned it). I personally fully expect the glory of composting when I die, but for many people, religion is a core part of their identity and indeed a crutch on which they depend for their understanding of the world, meaning of life, future etc etc. Ok, that may be so with boulderers too, but I suspect less so ... Sure, disagree. Question. Challenge. I do all the time. Just try and do so with a semblence of consideration for other peoples feelings.

It continues to amaze me in some ways how lasting religion is. The thing that strikes me most about this poll isn't that there are more buddists than expected, but way way more atheists than in Australia in general. I suspect this has something to do with personality types attracted to climbing and level of education, probably also the cultures and ethinicities that most climbers' backgrounds are in Australia. It is afterall still a bit of a luxury sport.

Aside from that, religion is undergoing a resurgence in Australia. Particularly evangelistic christian churches, islam and possiblly Buddhism too. My theory on the popularity of Buddism is a little more cycnical than Climbaholics. I think that people are still looking for a story that helps them make sense of their lives, but are dissilusioned with the standard christian variations in Oz, and buddism has a trendy, alternative ring to it. Besides, it promotes itself now. How many Dalai Lama's have done world tours before this one? It's like people who go to India to "find themselves" (maybe I have some odd friends...). It's like a hope that some exotic practice is going to save them. And it is easy to see how some of the major religions have been embroiled in war, genocide, oppression etc etc and I don't think buddism has such a history so some peaceloving people who also want something to believe in might be tempted to check it out.

On the development of religions in the first place - i think it has a top down and bottom up process. In general, people seem to have a desire for something to help them make sense of the world, to feel there is something more than them, to give them meaning and motivation and to guide their actions. Thus they went looking for stories that helped them to do that. People have been telling stories like this forever and a day. Fairy stories do that. Myths do that. Indigenous stories do that. And religions do that. Then there is the desire of other people to control a population - and the effects of this can be seen more in some religions than others. A hierachy of "experts" and the original developers of these stories are very powerful in shapping the lives of people who follow them. Thus certain groups have succeeded in oppressing other groups and developing a society that suits their needs through a believe system. There are plenty of ways in which some (I'm not saying all because I don't know enough about lots of them) religions did this with women and homosexuals, and it's pretty easy to see conflict between religions, races and castes in this context as well.

Praying is the last thing on my mind when 15m about a bodgy RP! Not that I'm likely to end up there much! I'd rather do something I know to be useful - like taking a deep breath and just bloody climbing.

rodw
4/12/2009
9:07:34 AM
How come Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster wasn't an option???

http://www.venganza.org/
Wendy
4/12/2009
9:09:31 AM
Olly the Holy Octopus? How about Satanists?

ambyeok
4/12/2009
9:24:58 AM
There is nothing offensive in this thread, did I miss a post or something? The odd comment about lack of religion signifying an increased intelligence is pretty lame and falls like water off a ducks back.

On 4/12/2009 Climboholic wrote:
>To throw fuel on the fire: Do people think we are evolving in this direction?

Society has evolved in this direction. Young people have greater freedom of choice and expression and society has come to accept, embrace and strongly encourage differences of ideas, we no longer simply follow our parents.

On 4/12/2009 NMcKinnon wrote:
> Anyways buddhism can't help you in this situation either because it preaches that "concepts of a substantial Self are incorrect and formed in the realm of ignorance."

I think if anyone 15m run-out above an RP in a shitty flake is able to find solace in an understanding on an impermanent self then they are seconds away from enlightenment. The rest of us shit our pants like everybody else.

ambyeok
4/12/2009
9:38:27 AM
On 4/12/2009 Wendy wrote:
>and buddism has a trendy, alternative ring to it.......

Quite agree. However bear in mind when discussing Budhism that the Dalia Lama represents one tradition, the Tibetan Mahayana school. We also have the southern Theravadan schools, Pure Land teachings, Zen, Chan, Seon, etc. I suspect many people are hugely ignorant of Buddhism and their knowledge may be limited only to exposure to popular culture and well known images/figures (same can be said for my knowledge of many other religions). I wouldnt personally categorise Buddhist practice as a religion, if it is a religion than it is religion without faith, that is a big difference.

foreverabumbly
4/12/2009
9:39:07 AM
On 4/12/2009 evanbb wrote:
>But also, I strongly believe that if you're going to believe in something,
>you better be prepared to have that belief challenged... but you better be ready to have >questions asked about how
>you reached that conclusion. For your own sake if nothing else.

I admit I jumped the gun a bit but I felt the tone was starting to go downhill and I wanted people to think a little before they posted here.

I dont mind having my belief challenged, I dont mind it being questioned. I welcome it. But


>I'm attracted to the notion that religious belief is a usually mild form of mental illness

>Wow! You want to know something weird - over 70 percent of chockstoners have
>above average intelligence

for example is not questioning my faith, thats ridiculing me. There seems to be a double standard applied to these sort of discussions, if I talk about my faith, Im jamming it down peoples throat - people dont mind me being religious but Im not aloud to talk about it. Yet if you have no faith, its a free for all, Athiest feel its a given right to jam their convictions where ever they please.

Again, I know I jumped the gun, but Ive seen where these conversations lead.


gfdonc
4/12/2009
9:53:01 AM
This is so much more fun than the Friday Funnies.

GravityHound
4/12/2009
9:54:22 AM
On 4/12/2009 foreverabumbly wrote:
>There seems
>to be a double standard applied to these sort of discussions, if I talk
>about my faith, Im jamming it down peoples throat - people dont mind me
>being religious but Im not aloud to talk about it. Yet if you have no faith,
>its a free for all, Athiest feel its a given right to jam their convictions
>where ever they please.

Well that is just a generalist slur on athiests. I am sure some athiests that are selective in where they jam their convictions could be offended by that.

>
>Again, I know I jumped the gun, but Ive seen where these conversations
>lead.
>

where do they lead?


evanbb
4/12/2009
9:59:24 AM
On 4/12/2009 ambyeok wrote:
>I think if anyone 15m run-out above an RP in a shitty flake is able to
>find solace in an understanding on an impermanent self then they are seconds
>away from enlightenment. The rest of us shit our pants like everybody else.

Absolute classic. That quote's going straight to the pool room.

evanbb
4/12/2009
10:01:47 AM
On 4/12/2009 Wendy wrote:
>On the development of religions in the first place

Have you read Dawkins' The God Delusion?

He makes the argument that a lot of the monotheistic religions have their roots in a means of motivating people to go to war for a monarchy. Check any monarchy in the world, they all have the angle of 'divine blessing'; doing God's work. Dawkins argues that a belief in a nice afterlife is the only way to motivate someone to die for their country and leader. Otherwise, what possible reason could they have to risk their life in war?

nmonteith
4/12/2009
10:02:21 AM
20 years ago I remember attending a weekly non-religious school class (jn a State School), whilst most
of my friends went off Christian Scripture classes according to whatever floated their (parents) boat. In
this class we did nothing - just sat around catching up on other school work or reading novels. Apparently
the teachers weren't allowed to teach us anything in this class. It was literally against the law and
enforced by the Christian lobby. My Jewish, Buddhist and Muslim school friends were lumped in the
same non-religious class as me (i'm the atheist)

20 years later it seems there is finally a move towards creating a non-religious option - an ethics class.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/25/2752688.htm

 Page 2 of 11. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 200 | 201 to 206
There are 206 messages in this topic.

 

Home | Guide | Gallery | Tech Tips | Articles | Reviews | Dictionary | Forum | Links | About | Search
Chockstone Photography | Landscape Photography Australia | Australian Landscape Photography

Please read the full disclaimer before using any information contained on these pages.



Australian Panoramic | Australian Coast | Australian Mountains | Australian Countryside | Australian Waterfalls | Australian Lakes | Australian Cities | Australian Macro | Australian Wildlife
Landscape Photo | Landscape Photography | Landscape Photography Australia | Fine Art Photography | Wilderness Photography | Nature Photo | Australian Landscape Photo | Stock Photography Australia | Landscape Photos | Panoramic Photos | Panoramic Photography Australia | Australian Landscape Photography | Mothers Day Gifts | Gifts for Mothers Day | Mothers Day Gift Ideas | Ideas for Mothers Day | Wedding Gift Ideas | Christmas Gift Ideas | Fathers Day Gifts | Gifts for Fathers Day | Fathers Day Gift Ideas | Ideas for Fathers Day | Landscape Prints | Landscape Poster | Limited Edition Prints | Panoramic Photo | Buy Posters | Poster Prints