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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Poll Option Votes Graph
Athiest 90
69% 
Buddhist 5
4% 
Christian 23
18% 
Muslim 1
1% 
Jewish 1
1% 
Hindu 1
1% 
Other 8
6% 
Don't know due too many choices. 2
2% 

 Page 8 of 11. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 200 | 201 to 206
Author
O.T - Religion & Climbing Poll.

wallwombat
7/12/2009
1:44:21 PM
On 7/12/2009 evanbb wrote:
> He went through a dark patch by all accounts, including a 'soloing
>rampage'.
>

That dark patch didn't really end until he died soloing Mt Alberta
ZERO
7/12/2009
2:23:13 PM
So 68% say they are atheists, which means you believe in NO God/Deity/Supreme OMNIPRESENCE.
Therefore you still have a belief system.
Maybe there should have been a "No Religion" option to gain a better perspective.
egosan
7/12/2009
2:38:09 PM
On 7/12/2009 wallwombat wrote:
>On 7/12/2009 evanbb wrote:
>> He went through a dark patch by all accounts, including a 'soloing
>>rampage'.
>>
>
>That dark patch didn't really end until he died soloing Mt Alberta

Here is one of the links I came across doing a bit of "who the hell is Toby Sorenson?" on google:

http://stonemastergear.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29&Itemid=1

Gold

D.Lodge
7/12/2009
2:41:31 PM
On 7/12/2009 kayakerSteve wrote:
>So 68% say they are atheists, which means you believe in NO God/Deity/Supreme
>OMNIPRESENCE.
>Therefore you still have a belief system.
>Maybe there should have been a "No Religion" option to gain a better perspective.

You don't need to "believe" there is no god it is just known!

jaebo
7/12/2009
6:36:20 PM
i can't be bothered reading the entire thread.

but to clarify - theism/atheism by deifinition is the belief or lack of belief on the existence of God (God by reasoning is a deity and is omnipresent, so there is no need to add them as extra categories)

having a belief system or not, does not disqualify the term atheist as i believe you simply have a misunderstanding of the definition of what atheism is. it's not concerned with the movement of thought of not having a belief. only not having a belief in God.

perhaps something to add, catergorically, is gnostic-atheism, agnostic-atheism, gnostic-theism and agnostic-theism.
while theism deals with 'belief'. gnosticism deals with 'knowledge'. so one can claim to have, or not have, knowledge as to why they do, or do not, believe in the existence of God.

so someone like dawkins would say they are atheist. but more precisely, he is a gnostic-athiest. someone who does not believe in the existence of God but has no rational argument for why they don't, would be an agnostic-atheist. make sense?
likewise someone like william lane craig would claim to be a theist. but more precisely, a gnostic-theist. people who say they believe in God but can't articulate a rational argument would be agnostic-theists.

with regard to the last statement, this is fallacious. no offense intended. it goes against scientific and rational principles.

personally i would go with hume's famous words 'a wise person proportions their beliefs to the evidence'.
how evidence presents itself and is interpreted is different for each person hence perennial debates exist.
however such a view allows for the possibility of growth and change, not stagnant thought.

edit: just one thing to add, religion and sustaining a belief in the existence of God are not synonomous.

SwineOfTheTimes
7/12/2009
7:28:03 PM
On 7/12/2009 jaebo wrote:

>
>having a belief system or not, does not disqualify the term atheist as
>i believe you simply have a misunderstanding of the definition of what
>atheism is. it's not concerned with the movement of thought of not having
>a belief. only not having a belief in God.
>
Atheism is the absence of theism; by itself, it isn't even a belief, much less a belief system, and as such cannot be any of those things. Atheism implies no further belief system.
Wendy
7/12/2009
7:42:32 PM
On 6/12/2009 wallwombat wrote:
>To get back on topic, it's a good thing you aren't a Christian as I think
>the big fella had a rule against rendering on the Sabbath.

.... and then I took the lord's name in vain and coveted my neighbours timber framed walls. Actually, he sometimes works on his house in nothing but a pair of those tight little Calvins. I do a bit of coveting my neighbour's ass then too.

jaebo
7/12/2009
11:10:29 PM
swine of the times -

i mean no disrespect, but i think you may need to reconsider your understanding of atheism as i do not believe it is the view held by the consensus of scholars or dictionaries:

atheism:
–noun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

quite simply put, atheism is a belief. again, you may need to reconsider your understanding of what a belief is:

belief
–noun
1. something believed; an opinion or conviction
2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof

having said this, your final statement is also incorrect as the founding principles are incorrect.
hero
7/12/2009
11:25:53 PM
Surely all things are beliefs in an epistemological sense. If we did not believe things we would not act at all. I believe that when I put my feet on the ground they will support me. That is based on experience, memory, sensation, the fact that i see ther people doing the same etc. I could be wrong. That is not the same thing as saying that I believe in a big invisible thing. It is a belief of a different scale and arguably category. There is no basis to believe in such a thing, there are a lot of bases to believe the opposite.

Sarah Gara
7/12/2009
11:31:17 PM
What do you get if cross an agnostic, a dyslexic and an insomniac?

Someone who lies awake at night wondering if there really is a dog!!!

Night night guys. x

wallwombat
8/12/2009
12:07:51 AM
On 7/12/2009 jaebo wrote:
>i can't be bothered reading the entire thread.

I mean no offence but I think it's a bit rude to chime in at the end of a thread, beginning with the statement that you cant't be bothered reading the whole thread and then proceed to tell everyone how wrong they are.

If you know what I mean.

jaebo
8/12/2009
8:26:14 AM
wall wombat,

thanks for you comment, and point taken. i didn't mean to cause any disrespect to anyone.
i would rather like during the discourse of conversation to have both my own and others views challenged so that we may grow from the experience.

having said that, i read through the first few pages and it was full of short comments which did not add value in my mind to the overall discussion.
i then went to the last pages and found the comments i decided to reply to.

i don't wish to appear as someone telling "everyone how wrong they are". my hope is that with a clear and mutual understanding of the 'terms' we are using, we may have good conversation.
it is pointless to discuss such matters if what i term, apple, is what the other terms, orange.
the conversation will end a waste of time as the participants are discussing different things.

i hope this clarifies where i am coming from?

gerryn
9/12/2009
10:59:19 AM
God doesn't believe in atheists

pmonks
9/12/2009
11:04:45 AM
On 9/12/2009 gerryn wrote:
>God doesn't believe in atheists

It would be impolite for Him / Her / It / Them not to return the favour!

wallwombat
10/12/2009
4:53:50 AM
http://www.religionisbullshit.net/

Climboholic
10/12/2009
10:07:07 AM
On 7/12/2009 kayakerSteve wrote:
>So 68% say they are atheists, which means you believe in NO God/Deity/Supreme
>OMNIPRESENCE.
>Therefore you still have a belief system.
>Maybe there should have been a "No Religion" option to gain a better perspective.

From religionisbullshit.net

"Atheism actually has a very simple definition:

a [without] theism [belief in a deity]
Atheism is not a religion or a system of belief; it is merely the absence of a belief. The term "agnostic" is therefore meaningless, and anyone who does not actively believe in a deity can be called an atheist."

Need I say more?
Brazened
10/12/2009
10:09:26 PM
From dictionary.com

Agnostic

1. a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the
essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is
limited to experience.

2. a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of
study.

Atheist

a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Agnostic

1 : a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and
probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the
existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

2 : a person unwilling to commit to an opinion about something

Atheist

: one who believes that there is no deity

Atheism

a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity

Hmmm what to believe, religinisbullshit.com or dictionarys? :)
There does seem to be a difference between Agnostic and Atheist.

Also interesting reading is the Standard Encyclopedia of Philosophy's paper on beliefs.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/belief/

D.Lodge
10/12/2009
10:28:44 PM
Yeah people who are agnostic don't have the balls too decide one way or the other. Sitting on the fence waiting for a deathbed conversion
climberman
10/12/2009
10:37:35 PM
On 7/12/2009 kayakerSteve wrote:
>So 68% say they are atheists, which means you believe in NO God/Deity/Supreme
>OMNIPRESENCE.
>Therefore you still have a belief system.

No I don't. f---ing theists, always telling us what we believe.

Zebedee
10/12/2009
11:23:18 PM
On 7/12/2009 jaebo wrote:

>atheism:
>–noun
>1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
>2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
>quite simply put, atheism is a belief. again, you may need to reconsider
>your understanding of what a belief is:
>
>belief
>–noun
>1. something believed; an opinion or conviction
>2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately
>susceptible to rigorous proof
>
>having said this, your final statement is also incorrect as the founding
>principles are incorrect.
To be an atheist is not to hold any particular belief about God(s). I have a world view (a ‘picture’ of the way things are) that contains no God(s). If it was necessary for this world view to be a belief about everything that wasn’t in it [including God(s)] then I would necessarily have to hold a particular belief for everything that wasn’t included in my world view that is to hold an infinite number of beliefs (there ain’t no spaghetti monster, their ain’t no Cyclops, their ain’t no unicorns, their ain’t no man in the moon, their ain’t no Zeus, and on through the entire list of hippy ássed cØckeyed ideas that people hold or in fact could hold) now large as my brain is it cannot hold an infinite number of anything so the logical conclusion is that a world view that contains no God(s) does not contain any belief about God(s) whatsoever.

 Page 8 of 11. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 200 | 201 to 206
There are 206 messages in this topic.

 

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