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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Poll Option Votes Graph
Athiest 90
Buddhist 5
Christian 23
Muslim 1
Jewish 1
Hindu 1
Other 8
Don't know due too many choices. 2

 Page 6 of 11. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 200 | 201 to 206
O.T - Religion & Climbing Poll.
Chockstone Moderator
11:20:54 PM
On 4/12/2009 Climboholic wrote:
>On 3/12/2009 Wendy wrote:
>>The list changes everytime I look at it!
>Can others modify a poll that I've started? I started it before leaving
>work yesterday, eagerly anticipating the flurry of debate to keep me occupied
>for a couple of hours. When I checked it this morning the title had changed
>and an extra option added.

Moderators can do that.
I changed the title by adding O.T. for off topic.
I also added the last option (there being one vacant), originally as scientology, as a pick from a Wendy post suggestion, but when she questioned that choice over the others, I gave up and changed it again to too many to pick from.

The original post integrity remains intact.

12:27:47 AM
On 4/12/2009 hero wrote:
>he he Buddhist swine. Not as rare as Muslim Swine or Zionist Swine,

Don't think Muslim and Zionist go together.
How about Jewish Swine, In place of Zionist.
Or how about Catholic Swine?

which ever, they're all a bunch of mass murderers in the name of their god.

Sarah Gara
8:02:49 AM
On 5/12/2009The very eloquent Wendy wrote:
>Humanism is philosophy/morality/ethics base Sarah, not a religion! Unless
>you want to list John Stuart Mills as a god and "on liberty" as your bible.

I'm not sure that all humanist's would agree that it's not a religion. ( I couldn't care less-I'm happy with it being a moral base) It think it all depends upon how you define religion -I'd define it as a belief system -in which case I reckon humanism gets under the umbrella.

I feel it's better to be a Humanist than being atheist, it's a secular religion (oxymoron?) I used to be agnostic then I was atheist for a while but I struggled with the concept of a belief in nothing - felt it was a bit of a waste of time! therefore I like Humanism as it gives my lack of a belief in God a bit of direction and brings something good out of it.

I wish I could believe in God it would make life a lot easier knowing that something was looking out for me and had a plan. I am often very jealous of my friends who have that belief as a lot of them derive a lot of comfort from a belief in God ( I went to a church school - I was the only one in my class that chose not to get confirmed.)

I'd say the only good thing about religion is that they are all an base for ethics and morals but that it's a shame that that is lost sometimes in favour of stupid arguments about supreme beings. When really that shouldn't matter It's better to do something because it is right rather than due to fear that you won't get into heaven etc. I also think that you can have a faith in the goodness of humanity; looking towards ourselves to derive our morality. I think that is a religion in some terms but I'll grant you if you define religion by belief in a deity it's probably not.

if Climberism is recognised as a religion, I must be an extremist - I
>don't just dedicate weekends to my religious practice, I go on many pilgrimages
>each year and I own many holy relics.

yes I'm defo in favour of making that a religion -tax free holidays? bring it on! x
8:25:23 AM
Hey Sarah, when are you making your next pilgrimage down here? Long time no see! I also think we can put in a proposal for some public holidays on crucial dates to Climberism.

I think it's useful to have a basis for ethics, I tend to have social and environmental justice at the centre of mine, but I don't think that makes a religion. I like the NSW proposal to have ethics classes - except I think that all the kids in scripture classes would benefit from attending them as well, as I don't think scripture classes cover the breadth of options, approaches and issues useful to cover in modern society. I spent my final year in a christian school (after getting expelled from the state school) and rather quickly decided to wag RE for the rest of the year. That was the year that a gay teach was fired from a SA public school purely for being gay. I had a rather heated coversation with my RE teacher about it - he thought it was reasonable, bad example/risk to kids etcetc, I didn't think so, which ended in him asking if I even believed in god (how this relates to gay teachers, I'm not sure), to which I replied of course bloody not, polite teenager that I was. Anyway, I don't think that sets any example of a broad consideration of an issue.

But if we are going to consider humanism as a religion, does that mean that we have religions in existentialism, post moderism, liberalism, communism, captialism , oh actually, I think that one might well be a religion ...
11:13:02 AM
Not sure how we're using the word 'humanism' here.

"The doctrine emphasizing a person's capacity for self-realization through reason; rejects religion and the supernatural."

So it not really a religion. It's another human arrogance. The belief that humans can transcend their biological nature, think themselves out of all the shit they've got themselves into (climate change, overpopulation of malthusian proportions, pollution), the idea that they can be as gods (despite all the evidence to the contrary).

12:54:11 PM
Humanism is not a religion and to be totally accurate neither is Buddhism.

I was finding this thread so interesting that I went to the library on Friday and borrowed Richard Dawkins book 'The God Delusion'. I haven't been able to put it down.
12:57:08 PM
On 5/12/2009 wallwombat wrote:
>And scarecrow, I have never met a 'bible-bashing atheist' in my life.
>Sure, they might be vocal in arguements and discussions like this one,
>but they hardly go around knocking on doors and telling people not to believe
>in God or whatever.

There you are!

1:00:44 PM
I have dial up. It will take me three weeks to download that.

Be a good chap and explain yourself rather than throwing youtube links at me. It will greatly improve your debating skills.
1:03:39 PM
Well, I'm pretty happy with my debating skills, but to 'greatly them' - it's John Safran doing exactly what
you said - dressing up as a mormon but instead with a 'John Safran - Atheist' badge, and pushing his
beliefs on mormons in Salt Lake city.
Pretty much - he's showing how obnoxious mormons are. It's pretty funny - worth the three weeks of
downloading in my opinion.

"I missed the bit, in The New Testament where jesus says unto his flock: " Go around and annoy the shit
out of people, by bashing on their door"


1:08:06 PM
OK cool. I've seen that. It was pretty funny.

You have to admit that Safran isn't your run of the mill atheist. Not to many atheists get themselves nailed to a cross to try to make a point. That still gives me nightmares.

And I realised my mistake about a second after I posted and corrected it. Your pretty bloody quick. I'll give you that.
1:08:59 PM
Totally agree - just thought stirring the pot would be a slightly lighter edge to the deeply metaphysical
discussion above - he does like his extremes.
1:54:24 PM
I was lead to investigate whether Buddhism had been caught up in anything resembling the horrors done in the name of Christianity, Judaism and Islam and despite it's peaceloving image, there's a few. Screamingly obviously now I think about it is Burma. The junta still claim to be buddhist.these guys suggest a few others, along with talking about the more well known buddhist involvement in protest and social action, which isn't really the same kettle of fish. Then there's this talking about holy wars in Buddhism. Kinda totaly aside, but just because I was curious whether "human frailities" had turned up buddhism as well.

2:00:58 PM
I'm sure a lot of the Japanese armed forces during WW2 were Buddhists.
2:38:23 PM
I really must be a sucker for punishment ... so this time I looked up Buddhism and the position of women. The general claim seemed to be that Buddhist ethos treats men and women the same, but there's some differences in stipulations for men and women (there are 98 more rules for nuns than there are for monks). One explanation offered for this was the ethos developed in the context of existing patriarchal societies and thus there is some ambivalence in Buddhist history and teaching around women. Someone else suggested that the monks needed to view women as repulsive in order to resist them and maintain celibacy and that this lead to them generally being unable to see them as seeking enlightenment in the same way as men. And maybe male presence was necessary for the safety of the women from harrassment and assault but came to be seen as women needing male guidence.Then there was stuff about controlling sexuality arising from views that women's purpose being to have babies and please men made them more sexual and thus they needed more regulation of sexuality under the ethos. It could all be chicken or the egg stuff really, but certainly highlights the close relationship between oppression and religion (or in this case, ethos).

Despite this, 2 studies concluded that the position of women across the time spectrum studied in buddhist countries (in this case Burma, Sri Lanka, Thailand) was better than in the neighbouring non-buddhist countries (China, India).

2:52:29 PM
On 6/12/2009 Wendy wrote:
>I really must be a sucker for punishment ...

I think you you must really hate rendering.
2:55:00 PM
On 6/12/2009 wallwombat wrote:
>On 6/12/2009 Wendy wrote:
>>I really must be a sucker for punishment ...
>I think you you must really hate rendering.

I am a little over it ... but mostly it's hard to stay motivated working by yourself. I was much more focussed yesterday because Anthony kept bring more buckets of mud before I had time to get off the scaffold and claim it was time for tea break

3:16:04 PM
To get back on topic, it's a good thing you aren't a Christian as I think the big fella had a rule against rendering on the Sabbath.

3:27:09 PM
On 6/12/2009 Wendy wrote:
>I was lead to investigate whether Buddhism had been caught up in anything
>resembling the horrors done in the name of Christianity, Judaism and Islam
>and despite it's peaceloving image, there's a few.

Yep, Buddhists are prone to fighting, f*cking and farting just like everyone else, otherwise there wouldnt be any Buddhists only Bodhisattvas (enlightened beings).

6:57:20 PM
On 6/12/2009 Wendy wrote:
>I really must be a sucker for punishment ... so this time I looked up Buddhism
>and the position of women. The general claim seemed to be that Buddhist
>ethos treats men and women the same, but there's some differences in stipulations
>for men and women (there are 98 more rules for nuns than there are for
>monks). . . .

and then there the belief in Buddhism, you can't gain enlightenment as a women until you've been
reincarnated as a man.

7:39:00 PM
I was unaware of this Pat, but from some quick research it appears to be true of certain schools, particular the southern schools. From The Place of Women in Buddhism:

Later academic speculation has raised the question whether a female could become a Buddha or a Bodhisattva. Mahayanists have taken an affirmative position (e.g. the cult of Kwan Yin as a Bodlihisattva who heeds the pleas of those in distress), but the Theravadan position is less clear. Some have claimed that the Buddhas have to be males, others have taken a more ambiguous position. The correct way to approach this question is to regard it as another of those profitless questions which the Buddha left unresolved (avy‚kata), as it is irrelevant to the question of release from sams‚ra.

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There are 206 messages in this topic.


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