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Sydney National Parks - Climbing & POM Review

Wendy

6-Dec-2009
2:52:59 PM

On 6/12/2009 wallwombat wrote:
>Good one Wendy.. I registered for that Parks Victoria thing and will post
>something as soon as someone gets the ball rolling. Most of the submissions
>I could find were about blowing away Bambi.

OK, ball rolling, maybe we can distract topic away from hunting. I was tempted to say something about my objections to hunting as well ... I'll think about that one again later. Now I really am going to get some work done.


kuu

6-Dec-2009
3:31:44 PM

On 6/12/2009 wallwombat wrote:
>Good one Wendy.. I registered for that Parks Victoria thing and will post
>something as soon as someone gets the ball rolling. Most of the submissions
>I could find were about blowing away Bambi.

Does this suggest that some user groups, in this case hunters, are better organised at effective
lobbying than, say, climbers?

The very nature of the climbing experience seems to work against the formation of organised
representative bodies but this is exactly what government agencies have so far needed for formalised
dialogue. They have, in the past, had difficulty trying to deal with a multitude of individuals and their
divergent opinions, seeking instead a community consensus view (preferably put forward by a peak
representative body).

With the emergence (as noted here on Chockstone) of the Parks Victoria and NSW NPWS web-based
discussion forums canvassing views on access issues we may be witnessing a new paradigm. It
could mean that land managers will be able to assess and summarise the views and wishes of a large
number of individuals in any given community in a direct manner, without them necessarily being
members of a formalised body.

But long-standing organisations like VCC or SRC will continue to have a role as repositories of
collective history and knowledge (and wisdom?) that can inform and direct present-day climbers in
dealing with access and other issues as they arise. And if the differences that exist between climbers,
both in geographic and discipline terms, could be eliminated, then perhaps a national body such as the
ACA could have a parallel existence?


wallwombat

6-Dec-2009
4:50:45 PM

On 6/12/2009 kuu wrote:
>With the emergence (as noted here on Chockstone) of the Parks Victoria
>and NSW NPWS web-based discussion forums canvassing views on access issues >we may be witnessing a new paradigm. It could mean that land managers will be able >to assess and summarise the views and wishes of a large number of individuals in any >given community in a direct manner, without them necessarily being members of a >formalised body.

I totally agree. This is something new but at the moment the only assessment the land managers will be able to make, in the case of Sydney Harbour National Park, is that about 30 or so rock climbers would like the prohibition of rock climbing in the park overturned.

That's not a very big voice and if I was a land manager it certainlty wouldn't convince me to make any changes.

As I said before the apathy and general lack of responses makes me embarrassed to call myself a climber.

I think it's time to dust off the surf board.


kuu

6-Dec-2009
5:26:23 PM

Hi WallWombat,

By all means dust of the surfboard - my own escape currently is a sea kayak.

Earlier you wrote ...
" I wonder how many formal submissions they recieved last time. My guess is they got one from the
Sydney Rock Climbing Club and maybe a handful more. That's not much of a voice and it's hardly
suprising that climbing was viewed as a fringe activity and given the bum's rush. "

You are probably correct in this regard, but now at least we've seen 30 or so climbers make the effort
to respond. This is a progression, slight as it may be!

Obviously there will be greater individual climber response and input when the crag/cliff/area happens
to be their favourite place, and I agree it would be comforting to see a more vocal climbing community
backing for access issues generally.

Thanks for your efforts in pushing this issue in front of climbers.

But don't sell off your climbing gear just yet. It will still be useful for those days when the surf is
rubbish!

kieranl

6-Dec-2009
6:28:36 PM

Yes hunters are very well organised and very good at lobbying Parks.
Don't get despondent about the number of responses to date.It's par for the course.
Thanks for beating the drum, the topic has slipped under my radar until last night so I've now put in a response.
We have in the past run some very good campaigns around major issues at Arapiles. It comes down to actively contacting people to get submissions in. Someone would be the NSW contact and they would hassle people there, some Kiwi climber would do some NZ stirring, US climbers ditto. Personal contact is the only way to get a decent response.
Thanks for your efforts, It's a really hard grind fighting these campaigns.


rodw

6-Dec-2009
7:52:52 PM

Dealing with NPWS is very frustrating....I learnt back when I was a youngster when I did a lot of caving and going through permit loop...now Im much older and wiser I just ignore the fukers and do what I like...much easier

I think WW main concern is people on this site can post crap apon crap as to whose penis is bigger on this site, but not spend 2 seconds posting something constructive on a NPWS forum when asked.


meinmuk

6-Dec-2009
10:16:44 PM

done

simey

6-Dec-2009
11:00:35 PM

On 6/12/2009 rodw wrote:
>I think WW main concern is people on this site can post crap apon crap as to whose penis is bigger on this site...

I think this has already been worked out...

http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?Action=Display&ForumID=6&MessageID=10063


wallwombat

8-Dec-2009
11:21:20 AM

Bump

dalai

8-Dec-2009
11:32:11 AM

Not sure why a separate topic was created? It has only now diluted already low responses into two topics...

Oh and bump again. :-)


IdratherbeclimbingM9

8-Dec-2009
11:50:26 AM

On 8/12/2009 dalai wrote:
>Not sure why a separate topic was created? It has only now diluted already
>low responses into two topics...
>
I thought the same when I found it, and that is why I cross-linked them.


wallwombat

8-Dec-2009
12:36:03 PM

It's good to see the responses trickling in. Thumbs up!

To those who haven't made a response, it only takes 5 minutes to register and make one. Don't let fear stand in your way.

To widewetandslippery - it might be better that you don't respond. Otherwise climbing will probably continue to be banned for another decade or two.

And to anyone who has lodged a response on the Parks Victoria site, can you tell me how to make a response. I have registered but I can't work out how to actually make a response. It's a bit confusing.

Duncan

8-Dec-2009
12:48:34 PM

I like the fact that Simey's nothing response has 3 agree's and 1 disagree.

Wendy

8-Dec-2009
1:23:38 PM

On 8/12/2009 wallwombat wrote:

>
>And to anyone who has lodged a response on the Parks Victoria site, can
>you tell me how to make a response. I have registered but I can't work
>out how to actually make a response. It's a bit confusing.

Tis true, it's naff. I went into here then scrolled down to the end of the page where there's a things saying EDIT and that opens the whole thread, including everyone else's posts (so you could insert rude comments into any you disagree with - seems pretty bodgy as I can't see anything stopping someone from modifying what you wrote), scroll down to the end of that and type away. You have to cut and past your signature from the thingy under the window into the text too.

Anyone who finds a better way or a better place to comment, feel free to let us know.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

8-Dec-2009
3:09:56 PM

I posted a reply'agreement to a wendysarah post on a thread at that Parks Vic site. When I went back to re-read the thread I couldn't find it.
~> Don't know where it ended up!

Definitely a convoluted process!!


wallwombat

8-Dec-2009
3:30:25 PM

Yes, it's definitely easier to post on the Sydney Harbour National Park site.

Which is all the more reason to register and post.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

8-Dec-2009
3:36:09 PM

>all the more reason to REGISTER AND POST

No need to shout mate, ☺ ... ~> just go and do a clandestine ascent of The Fear anyway, as truth be known it is probably more adventurous in its present status anyway ;-)
~> You will feel better for it!


wallwombat

8-Dec-2009
4:07:30 PM

On 8/12/2009 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:

>................................................. just go and do a clandestine ascent
>of The Fear anyway, as truth be known it is probably more adventurous in
>its present status anyway ;-)
>~> You will feel better for it!

That's not the point Mr Harding-Robbins and you know it.

And your just pissed that your the first person in the last 30 years to have fallen off Sunstroke and I mentioned it.

he he he x lots


IdratherbeclimbingM9

8-Dec-2009
4:21:01 PM

Yes I know that, but I have already contributed.

>And (snip)
Since when was Equilibrium renamed Sunstroke?


wallwombat

8-Dec-2009
5:03:17 PM

I was obviously misinformed. Apologies.

There are 176 messages in this topic.