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6-Jan-2022 12:46:53 PM
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On 6-Jan-2022 gordoste wrote:
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>Well said. I can't agree with dalai that this is "ominous" when climbers are so clearly in the wrong here.
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Not questioning whether the climbers did or didn't do the right thing here. The reality is TO's will have visited every crag in Australia. If the go to decision is to just ban climbing then that will happen. Enjoy your indoor climbing!
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6-Jan-2022 2:55:00 PM
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..and wave pools for surfers. Gotta love emerging market opportunities!
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7-Jan-2022 8:32:57 AM
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On 2-Jan-2022 Duang Daunk wrote
>Eh bro, where do you reckon Qsc can fuch around, as they obviously frustrated
>at Frog and carked cave development at Coolum, etc?
Everywhere. Qld has taken the State of Origin for garbage crag development away from NSW. You gotta go up and check out some of the utter shite they're gridding.
And cause it's Queensland everyone is chill and nice but a bit dopey (I would be too if my brain was pickled by XXXX and the heat), so none of the developers seem able to visualise repercussions and consequences beyond next Friday.
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10-Jan-2022 1:31:31 PM
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On 6-Jan-2022 dalai wrote:
>On 6-Jan-2022 gordoste wrote:
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>>Well said. I can't agree with dalai that this is "ominous" when climbers
>are so clearly in the wrong here.
>>
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>Not questioning whether the climbers did or didn't do the right thing
>here. The reality is TO's will have visited every crag in Australia. If
>the go to decision is to just ban climbing then that will happen. Enjoy
>your indoor climbing!
Sorry but I can't see how a ban on climbing here means climbing will be banned everywhere. This is the equivalent of people saying that if climbers get access anywhere, we'll destroy all the art because we don't give a toss.
We have to be willing to talk to TOs, ask which ones need to be off limits and then respect that. The "it's my right to climb anything on public land" attitude totally ignores TOs land rights that were established nearly 50 years ago. It's about time we caught up.
Note: This does not mean we should not fight arbitrary or over-extensive bans. But if we have the support of TOs (or at least are not in conflict with them), that fight will be easy.
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10-Jan-2022 1:59:53 PM
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We will have to agree to disagree.
Most climbers are willling to find some middle ground and do understand we can't climb everywhere.
But if the TO's have the ability to remove a user group with minimal fuss (those opposing will be labelled racist as already seen during the Gariwerd bans) why would they bother liasing with the user group?
As more areas are returned to TO's, I expect more areas will be closed off. Naive to think otherwise...
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11-Jan-2022 9:32:04 AM
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On 10-Jan-2022 dalai wrote:
>We will have to agree to disagree.
>
>Most climbers are willling to find some middle ground and do understand
>we can't climb everywhere.
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>But if the TO's have the ability to remove a user group with minimal fuss
>(those opposing will be labelled racist as already seen during the Gariwerd
>bans) why would they bother liasing with the user group?
>
>As more areas are returned to TO's, I expect more areas will be closed
>off. Naive to think otherwise...
I don't think we are disagreeing all that much. It really depends what happens in the next few months.
If we can establish a collaborative model for agreeing the closure of individual climbs , rather than entire crags, then that should become the preferred solution where possible (it won't always be possible). This is what the "middle ground" looks like, and if we can get there then the widespread closures you talk about will not happen.
But if the current ongoing discussions about management of climbing in Gariwerd and Djurite just ends with climbers refusing to recognise that our "right to climb" requires TO approval, then you are 100% right - we'll be cut out of the loop and things will just be closed wholesale.
If you think that TOs will just cynically cut us out, then I guess we'll have to wait and see if you're right. The positive reception to the efforts of GWRN to educate them on climbing gives me hope.
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11-Jan-2022 10:26:55 AM
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On 11-Jan-2022 gordoste wrote:
>If you think that TOs will just cynically cut us out, then I guess we'll
>have to wait and see if you're right. The positive reception to the efforts
>of GWRN to educate them on climbing gives me hope.
TO's interacting with GWRN does give a glimmer of hope.
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14-Jan-2022 12:37:02 AM
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Back to media watching .. MTC to produce a theatre play of Touching The Void
https://www.theage.com.au/culture/theatre/keep-breathing-and-make-every-scream-count-actors-tackle-a-deadly-climb-20220106-p59mex.html
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17-Jan-2022 10:21:39 AM
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On 10-Jan-2022 gordoste wrote:
>"We have to be willing to talk to TOs"
We were always willing. Gordoste you are 3 years behind.
The response was - YOU ARE CLIMBING ON STOLEN LAND
All of it.
This sentiment was stirred up by a certain Chief Operating Officer at Parks Victoria (now moved on).
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17-Jan-2022 10:30:59 AM
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On 14-Jan-2022 gfdonc wrote:
>Back to media watching .. MTC to produce a theatre play of Touching
>The Void
>https://www.theage.com.au/culture/theatre/keep-breathing-and-make-every-scream-count-acto
>s-tackle-a-deadly-climb-20220106-p59mex.html
>
Channeling Touching The Void by top roping at Hardrock :)
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21-Jan-2022 3:32:17 PM
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On 17-Jan-2022 chalkischeap wrote:
>On 14-Jan-2022 gfdonc wrote:
>>Back to media watching .. MTC to produce a theatre play of Touching
>>The Void
>>https://www.theage.com.au/culture/theatre/keep-breathing-and-make-every-scream-count-act
>
>>s-tackle-a-deadly-climb-20220106-p59mex.html
>>
>Channeling Touching The Void by top roping at Hardrock :)
Hardrock is selling celebratory Yates belay knives now?
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24-Jan-2022 10:34:09 AM
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On 17-Jan-2022 chalkischeap wrote:
>On 10-Jan-2022 gordoste wrote:
>>"We have to be willing to talk to TOs"
>
>We were always willing. Gordoste you are 3 years behind.
>
>The response was - YOU ARE CLIMBING ON STOLEN LAND
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>All of it.
>
>This sentiment was stirred up by a certain Chief Operating Officer at
>Parks Victoria (now moved on).
I wanted to leave this alone but I can't let you misquote me. You removed half of my sentence... I said "We have to be willing to talk to TOs, ask which ones need to be off limits and then respect that." We were willing to talk in the past, but always from a position of "we are entitled to climb wherever we like". That is why we got the response you describe - and describing it as stolen land is more true than false.
3 years ago, few (if any) climbers were willing to contemplate the complete closure of some cliffs to protect heritage values. Even now, some are saying that closing one crag is a slippery slope that inevitably leads to the complete banning of climbing. If everyone thinks like that, we'll never get anywhere.
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24-Jan-2022 12:22:56 PM
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On 24-Jan-2022 gordoste wrote:
>3 years ago, few (if any) climbers were willing to contemplate the complete closure of some cliffs to protect heritage values.
There's a few of us around. I don't think we're as loud as the other climbers though.
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25-Jan-2022 7:59:23 AM
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On 24-Jan-2022 ajfclark wrote:
>On 24-Jan-2022 gordoste wrote:
>>3 years ago, few (if any) climbers were willing to contemplate the complete closure of some cliffs to protect heritage values.
>
>There's a few of us around. I don't think we're as loud as the other climbers though.
That's why I'm posting.
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7-Feb-2022 9:27:35 PM
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Gordoste, I didn't think of asking which ones needed to be off limits so we could respect that.
Genius, sanctimonious genius.
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9-Feb-2022 4:15:26 AM
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Cisco secure firewall. Obviously rock climbing related.
https://www.cisco.com/site/us/en/products/security/firewalls/index.html
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10-Feb-2022 7:23:11 AM
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Obviously! Nice find
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20-Feb-2022 9:01:59 AM
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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-20/junior-rock-climbers-former-gymnasts-allege-sexual-abuse-coach/100816118
Not so nice.
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21-Feb-2022 5:27:36 AM
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Yes BA. That was a tough read and extremely sad!
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22-Feb-2022 9:01:16 AM
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Yes unfortunately these bastards are everywhere they can get in contact with kids.
Another recent one in the US
It can be annoying to do a working with children check, but it does actually help prevent these kinds of things.
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