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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 9 of 12. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 200 | 201 to 220 | 221 to 239
Author
34?

IdratherbeclimbingM9
28/05/2004
2:57:55 PM
On 28/05/2004 shaggy wrote:
>So, if there's no natural pro, this climb would only ever get repeated
>by people who can climb way beyond the technical aspects of this climb.

Yes.

Why not for goodness sake?; As its not like Australia is on limited rations of rock per climber at this stage of its climbing history!

Rich
28/05/2004
2:58:19 PM
On 28/05/2004 Jark wrote:
>Mate I'm deadly serious, we can't bolt the piss out of everything!
>
>It seems that the bold climber is in danger of becoming extinct, we need
>to look after their habitat.
>
>There is a generation of pussies being bread in it's place.
>
>Long live the runout and death route for those that are inclined!!

i don't necessarily disagree with the primary content of your argument but I think you misread my question jark..
maybe see you at araps then? ;-]

shaggy
28/05/2004
3:06:33 PM
My point A5, is that there are limitations to this, if run out sections are over easy ground or not the crux, fine, to a point. But if the crux has no pro, and a fall will result in death, place a bolt, why not? Climing is supposed to be an enjoyable past time, we dont need people dieing around the place, just to maintain a level of boldness.

Call me a pussy, call me what ever, but it isn't necisary for people to die climbing.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
28/05/2004
3:42:44 PM
On 28/05/2004 shaggy wrote:
>easy ground or not the crux, fine, to a point.
What is 'easy'? As an extreme example; ...Does this mean that a newbie with a bosch will gridbolt a gd 8 slab with full support from the climbing community?
How would the climbing community monitor /control it?

>has no pro, and a fall will result in death, place a bolt, why not?
Because not only is climbing supposed to be fun but PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and consequent 'ownership' of ones actions is, in my opinion, a fair ask of all participants.

>we dont need people dieing around the place, just to maintain a level of boldness.
I agree, and trust that the participants are sensible enough to recognise that any given climb is 'too bold' for them, take a responsible action and move on to another climb that is within their boldness limit.

>Call me what ever,
Most unlikely. There are too few of us (climbers of all shades) and I would sooner agree to disagree than eliminate a potential partner!

>it isn't necisary for people to die climbing
True. Its also a privilege to participate in a sport where you can die doing it. (Mikl)

Damietta
28/05/2004
3:44:39 PM
Whoever the Hex is, he's bad news, bro

Hex been gone
He been laying low
Looked for friends in high places
There aint no place left to go

Hexy been shown
He been measured
Double smoked
Tarred and feathered

Damey stepped into
The cauldron's domain
In the campside fire
The new house of pain

And from the flaming embers
to the strains of the pied piper
I say to the Hex (where are ya bro?)
You aint nothin but a sniper






shaggy
28/05/2004
3:53:42 PM
Damietta's getting all arty farty on us...
A5, Yes, the ultimate resposibility is upon the leader, but unfortunatly you assume that every one has common sence, this is not the case.
Also, I have been on several climbs where I got to a point that I didn't realize was supposed to be bold, a fall would result in death, even if it's within my grade, shite does happen and a fall may not be as a result of my errors. This really sux, it is NOT why I climb.
How much do we have to support someones ego, and let people potentialy die?

Very dramatic but it's in the ball park.

Damietta
28/05/2004
3:59:29 PM
On 28/05/2004 shaggy wrote:
>Damietta's getting all arty farty on us...

All I can say, shaggy waggy, is "wind your body, wiggle your belly"

shaggy
28/05/2004
4:06:36 PM
D It's all over my head!

IdratherbeclimbingM9
28/05/2004
4:24:12 PM
On 28/05/2004 shaggy wrote:
>Damietta's getting all arty farty on us...
Yeah, you should have resurrected the 'THE AUSTRALIAN RETRO/RE-BOLTING OPEN FORUM' with that post Damien.

>A5, Yes, the ultimate resposibility is upon the leader, but unfortunatly
>you assume that every one has common sence, this is not the case.
Then those participants should not be climbing, as they will stuff it up for the rest of us.

>shite does happen and a fall may not be as a result of my errors. This really sux, it is NOT why I climb.
I too have cul-de-sacked / over extended myself on climbs.
I then downclimb, (or fall).
Its part of the game. ... Welcome to Climbing (with a capital C).
Some climbs I won't attempt.

I happily accept that its not your reason for climbing, but equally I feel that for those who 'get off' on the fear/ego (or whatever), that those too are legitimate reasons for climbing. After-all the whole concept of climbing really is absurd. It goes against all 'common sense', but that is not a reason to sanitise it, nor give up participating in it.
Just do so (climb), knowing that your number may come up one day, even if all due care is taken.

>How much do we have to support someones ego, and let people potentialy die?
As much as we support any other extreme activity, or accept a daily road toll as being normal.

Damietta
29/05/2004
3:07:44 PM
On 28/05/2004 shaggy wrote:
>D It's all over my head!

Shaggus, they are lyrics from a well know Shaggy song. A poor attempt at humour I know...anyway

shaggy
29/05/2004
6:02:23 PM
D, My name is derived from scooby doo, that other shaggy bloke is just an imposter!
Joe
30/05/2004
4:30:16 PM
A5. Your arguments are on the money. Shaggy, there are many climbs for people who do not like the potential of injury or death. No death/scary routes = no variation = boring scene. You will notice the words in Jark's statement...."for those inclined". That doesn't appear to be you. That's cool. I'm not really into it either. Dude as for "climbing is supposed to be an enjoyable past time"... Different people are doing it for different reasons, not everyone is on a picnic.
Jark
31/05/2004
11:42:12 AM
A5iswhereitsat and Joe I believe you've hit the nail right on the head.

Shaggy, I don't want everyone to be bold climbers, I just believe that if someone establishes a route with the intension of it being bold that it should not be altered (ie bolts added, or moved) just so it can be enjoyed by the masses. If someone wants to do it who doesn't want to take the risks of leading, just top rope it or rig some super long draws for protection inbetween the placements.

As for the issue of people getting overextended on bold routes I believe that guidebook descriptions and common sence should be enough to keep people alive, if not Darwins theory will prevail..

Also, I don't believe that gd 30 climbers go around looking to establish bold gd 15's, most first ascentionists look for lines close to their ability.

Rich, As for this "see you at Araps" stuff I don't understand is this some kind of chalange or somthing? I assure you that I practice what I preech, ask around!
Steve M
31/05/2004
12:26:53 PM
The bottom line is this stuff only matters when someone runs out a classic. If someone boldly climbs a piece of rubbish it never gets repeated and no-one cares. If someone leads a classic piece of rock to create a death route people are pissed that they miss out a classic at their grade. If there are lots of classics that doesn't matter because variety should be accommodated. If you where in an area with limited good climbing and a lot of it is pure death I have a lot of sympathy for people being pretty disappointed.

Rich
31/05/2004
2:17:44 PM
On 31/05/2004 Jark wrote:
>Rich, As for this "see you at Araps" stuff I don't understand is this
>some kind of chalange or somthing? I assure you that I practice what I
>preech, ask around!

oh i'm sure you do mate, and i don't need to seek verification, you've made that quite clear enough, I believe you. ;-) And my only query (unanswered from earlier), was that do you reckon that climbers who don't climb as bold as you are all pussies? Is that what you are saying? That because you climb so hard and bold that everyone else who doesn't make the grade (or the runouts) are pussies? Or have i got it wrong somewhere?

Damietta
31/05/2004
3:31:23 PM
Rhymes with "Fark" but not with "Crikey!"

Look boys, we've canvassed this territory before. You change the grading system and then you don't have to worry about boldness - the trad climbers have their grades and their posse. The sportos have their grades, speedboat wankers and mosquito wall.

In terms of the deathroutes - Climbers who establish these are not putting up a new route to pass on the experience to the wider public - they are in it for their own experience and admission to some old school elite lads club. As long as we're clear on that then it's cool.

Other people put up new routes for different reasons - perhaps to add something useful to the cliff that opther people can enjoy.

All this B***shit about preserving the rock is exactly that - have a look at the impact of climbers on the living environment (ie where it actuyally matters) surrounding cliffs, the goat tracks, dunny rolls, campfires etc, and the removal of moss for the first ascent - ppffft!. If people are so concerned about preserving the environment, stay on the tracks and lookouts

Damietta
31/05/2004
3:35:45 PM
On 31/05/2004 kent wrote:
>*adopts schoolboy chant* "climb, climb, climb !!!!"
>
>I asked my brother bill. He has never heard of this jark character.
>He works in the territory. Catching crocs and wriglers. The chicks can't
>get enough of it. He knows malcolm though. Malcolm douglas is a superstar
>up in the north.

Kent I been watching you bro, you very Hexesque. I'm watching, waiting, commiserating, say it ain't so.......................
Jark
31/05/2004
3:49:33 PM
Rich, I don't think that everyone that doesn't climb as hard or bold as me are Pussys, just those who think that bolts are required every metre to make climbing safe!!!

I am not elitest, Jeez ask anyone who knows me, I believe I'm bloody hopeless. The problem is that all my climbing partners are freakin great climbers!!

As I've said before I don't think all routes need to be chop routes, but if you come and climb at Upper Shipley in the Blue Mountains you'll see a generation of climbers who think a bolt every metre is the norm and anything further apart is runout, it's sad :(

Any each their own!

Rich
31/05/2004
4:06:49 PM
On 31/05/2004 Jark wrote:
>Rich, I don't think that everyone that doesn't climb as hard or bold as
>me are Pussys, just those who think that bolts are required every metre
>to make climbing safe!!!
>
>I am not elitest, Jeez ask anyone who knows me, I believe I'm bloody hopeless.
>The problem is that all my climbing partners are freakin great climbers!!
>
>As I've said before I don't think all routes need to be chop routes, but
>if you come and climb at Upper Shipley in the Blue Mountains you'll see
>a generation of climbers who think a bolt every metre is the norm and anything
>further apart is runout, it's sad :(
>
>Any each their own!

Fair enough then, thanks for the clarification, it was definitely needed!!

And as i said earlier I certainly don't disagree with what you are saying. In the end the bolts on climbs are there to make the climbing safe, not sanitary.

On the other hand I also don't disagree with people who argue that classics that have unprotectable cruxes that you can deck out on could do with a bit of added preservative, so to speak. But i think this may be a bit academic as the guides here are quite detailed so dangers such as this would be mentioned. It is something more for new routers to contemplate i guess.
Jark
31/05/2004
4:15:54 PM
Rich, I agree, just every situation is different so it's hard for us to generalise on these aspects of climbing.

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