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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 11 of 15. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 200 | 201 to 220 | 221 to 240 | 241 to 260 | 261 to 280 | 281 to 288
Author
Tiger Wall - Dribble Bolting?

Sabu
26/08/2009
4:44:01 PM
Yea but it wasn't lined up nicely like the others!
otmab
26/08/2009
8:30:11 PM
I am an inexperienced climber (2.5 years). I have been to The Mount only a dozen times. I've often
wondered what the 'rules' are with respect to bolting there. Being a newbie, it's a little confusing.
Mostly, you don't see bolts at all, except, of course, at the very tops of climbs with rap anchors.

But from time to time you do see them - on harder climbs. And sometimes (rarely) on easier climbs.

Being a newbie, you also tend to be a little in awe of the place. It's one of the best places to climb in
the entire world. Many (most?) of the people you meet there have come from overseas or interstate.
You're climbing in the footsteps of giants. Surely, at a place like this, there _must_ be rules about
bolting, and making changes to this amazing rock nature has provided?

Over time, you realise that there aren't any clearly defined rules. This seems all the more surprising,
because, apart from the significance of The Arapiles worldwide, it's also in a state park.

There's a little guidance in the outstanding guidebooks by Simon and Glenn ('Rock Police', p13 2001
edition, p16 2008 edition). The advice is, overall, rightly discouraging to would-be bolters, but it's all,
necessarily, merely suggestions.

Based on (innumerable) previous posts, and especially Glenn's concise and logical post, this newbie
concludes

(this whole thread is a load of bullshit, please stop arguing you're making me sad, it's too late now,
anyone interested in this thread needs to harden up....)

- you shouldn't put bolts on climbs at the Arapiles
- *unless* you're a 'local'
- *and* you've had 'lots' of experience there
- *and* you've discussed it with the FA
- *and* it's 'carefully considered'
- *and* there are potential 'safety concerns' or bolting may make the route worthy of inclusion in a
guidebook

I don't find the above very satisfying, because the Mount is such a special place and I'd like it to stay
that way. I'm worried that without clearly defined rules, over time, it's going to become worse and
worse.

Why isn't there a committee that you need to contact if you want to make a change to the Arapiles?
It definitely wouldn't be the VCC. It'd be a small group of volunteers in Natimuk. If you wanted to put
a bolt in (etc.) you'd have to talk to the committee. If you didn't, your bolts would be ripped out.

Small, local committees for local issues can work extremely well. They're functional, and efficient.

I wouldn't advocate this for other crags - but the Arapiles is special. It's a treasure, in a global sense,
and I want my son, and his children, to experience it in the same way I have.

Sarah Gara
26/08/2009
8:33:48 PM
otmab you wrecked the stopping at 200 posts thing.

I can't even be bothered reading anymore.,.. no offence meant. Come help me shop for cars instead on the info for sarah thread.

and I've just spotted a print button at the bottom - If someone wanted to they could print the entire driblle thread.

AHHHHHHH...... x
otmab
26/08/2009
9:30:22 PM
>I can't even be bothered reading anymore.,.. no offence meant.

Ha ha, yes it was a long post, no offence taken!

>Come help
>me shop for cars instead on the info for sarah thread.

Na, lost interest in that thread somewhere around this point 'You have to bare in mind that I have no clue
where anything is and how big australia is' :)

Eduardo Slabofvic
26/08/2009
10:42:00 PM
On 26/08/2009 otmab wrote:
>Small, local committees for local issues can work extremely well. They're
>functional, and efficient.
>

The only people who would go on the committee are the same people who are spraying bolts all over the
place. Just like Chocky.
Mike Bee
26/08/2009
11:11:28 PM
On 26/08/2009 otmab wrote:
>This seems all the more surprising,
>because, apart from the significance of The Arapiles worldwide, it's also
>in a state park.

>-snip-

> - you shouldn't put bolts on climbs at the Arapiles

>-snip-

>Why isn't there a committee that you need to contact if you want to make
>a change to the Arapiles?

>-snip-

>I wouldn't advocate this for other crags - but the Arapiles is special.

The place would be called "The Arapiles" if it was a range of mountains, like "The Flinders" (short for The Flinders Ranges), or "The Gramps" (short for The Grampains National Park). As it is, it's a single mountain, so it's "the Mount", "Mt Arapiles", "Arapiles", "Araps", or "the 'piles" as some like to call it.

Calling the place "The Arapiles" is like saying "I'm off to climb the Everest", or "I'm off to climb the Kosciusko". It's grammatically incorrect (and a pet hate of mine, so that why I'm pulling you up on it).

Sorry, now back to the previously running circular argument!
tastybigmac
26/08/2009
11:29:08 PM
it is the arapiles mountains

Sabu
26/08/2009
11:40:52 PM
On 26/08/2009 Mike Bee wrote:
>On 26/08/2009 otmab wrote:
>>This seems all the more surprising,
>>because, apart from the significance of The Arapiles worldwide, it's
>also
>>in a state park.
>
>>-snip-
>
>> - you shouldn't put bolts on climbs at the Arapiles
>
>>-snip-
>
>>Why isn't there a committee that you need to contact if you want to make
>>a change to the Arapiles?
>
>>-snip-
>
>>I wouldn't advocate this for other crags - but the Arapiles is special.
>
>The place would be called "The Arapiles" if it was a range of mountains,
>like "The Flinders" (short for The Flinders Ranges), or "The Gramps" (short
>for The Grampains National Park). As it is, it's a single mountain, so
>it's "the Mount", "Mt Arapiles", "Arapiles", "Araps", or "the 'piles" as
>some like to call it.
>
>Calling the place "The Arapiles" is like saying "I'm off to climb the
>Everest", or "I'm off to climb the Kosciusko". It's grammatically incorrect
>(and a pet hate of mine, so that why I'm pulling you up on it).
>
>Sorry, now back to the previously running circular argument!

Yes mein Fuhrer !!
Wendy
27/08/2009
7:06:04 AM
On 26/08/2009 tastybigmac wrote:
>it is the arapiles mountains

So you can tick it's classic trekking peaks of Dec Crag and Mitre Rock

ajfclark
27/08/2009
7:17:47 AM
On 26/08/2009 Mike Bee wrote:
>it's a single mountain, so it's "the Mount", "Mt Arapiles", "Arapiles", "Araps" or "the 'piles" as some like to call it.

Admittedly this jars with my grammar nazi brain too but why is "the 'piles" ok but "the Arapiles" not ok? Doesn't the apostrophe indicate that it's a contraction? The only thing I can see it being a contraction for is "the Arapiles".
Wendy
27/08/2009
7:41:12 AM
Maybe it's really THE Arapiles, as in the one and only, the unique and insurpassable,"I met Kermit the Frog today" "Really? Not THE Kermit the Frog?" "Yes, THE Kermit the Frog!"

ajfclark
27/08/2009
7:47:20 AM
But there's two isn't there?

Sarah Gara
27/08/2009
8:46:46 AM
Otmab - I'm insulted that you got that far through this drawn out thread but couldn't be bothered with my on car shopping. -we are just the last 20 posts or so the rest is old.
Also it wasn't the lenght of yours that was the issue -I'm over the topic - It's borring complete dribble -And to prove how old it is I bet that joke has been used at least 5 times.

-If M9 is still bored he might do links to them all for you if we ask him nicely...

Jesus christ man -grammar lessons now?!

I wonder about the arapalies mountains -it's just one isn't it - or are you counting Mitre rock... I don't have a clue so don't shout at be if they are indeed separate bits. x
otmab
27/08/2009
9:09:12 AM
>(Wendy) Maybe it's really THE Arapiles, as in the one and only, the unique and insurpassable
That's also how I see it - but in hindsight, perhaps in that case it'd be "Arapiles, The Rock" :)

>(Mike Bee)It's grammatically incorrect (and a pet hate of mine, so that why I'm pulling you up on it).
I think it's fascinating how issues that are crucially important to human X are of absolutely no interest whatsoever to fellow-human Y, who shares 99.9% of X's DNA. And human X genuinely can't understand why human Y would feel that way, and vice-versa. Internet forums have a way of bringing this to the fore!! For example, it's bizarre (to me) that people would waste minutes of their time posting 'this thread is bullshit' or 'this grammar is wrong' on a thread about bolting at Araps. But, I'm sure they're thinking I'm equally bizarre.

>(Mike Bee)Sorry, now back to the previously running circular argument!
What circle? Sometimes, when people are utterly sick of talking about something, they say 'We're going 'round in circles'. As a newb, I'm trying to better understand the 'rules' for bolting at Araps, and perhaps improve the situation there. I think that is a useful discussion.

>(Eduardo Slabofvic)The only people who would go on the committee are the same people who are spraying bolts all over the place.
I don't get it. If you're passionate about what they're responsible for, you either get on the committee, or make sure someone who represents your view is on the committee. It's your choice whether to participate (directly/indirectly) or not. I think participating in a committee like that would beat ranting on Chockstone after bolts had been placed!!

IdratherbeclimbingM9
27/08/2009
9:50:35 AM
On 27/08/2009 otmab wrote:
>perhaps in that case it'd be "Arapiles, The Rock" :)
>
The Rock is up near Wagga Wagga...
;)

38 replies on camping / discussing 'The' at 'Arapiles' over here.





v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v
In the future 'Dave the perpetrator' defends pillage and-
widewetandslippery
27/08/2009
10:00:07 AM
otmab not all of us want rules as rules are usually used to control the individual to protect property owners and the family unit.
otmab
27/08/2009
11:12:07 AM
Agreed, wiSewetandslippery. Rules don't make sense. It's too complicated for rules. That's why there'd
only be 1 rule. If you want to make a change (bolt, belay anchor, 'cleaning' a route, laying concrete), ask
the committee first.

ajfclark
27/08/2009
11:14:34 AM
Could a committee be considered somewhat responsible in the event of a failure?

nmonteith
27/08/2009
11:34:55 AM
How would you get on this committee? The Nati climbing fraternity is already highly fragmented, what
makes you think they would ever reach a consensus over anything? This committee would require crazy
insurance to cover their asses if someone died on a route that they had voted to keep un-safe. The VCC steers clear of any involvement in rebolting for exactly this reason - they don't want to be sued!

IdratherbeclimbingM9
27/08/2009
11:41:33 AM
On 27/08/2009 otmab wrote:
>Agreed, wiSewetandslippery. Rules don't make sense. It's too complicated for rules. That's why there'd only be 1 rule. If you want to make a change (bolt, belay anchor, 'cleaning' a route, laying concrete), ask the committee first.

I can see it now ~>

Dear Committee,
Can I climb without having any personal responsibility? Have you already discussed this and agreed yet? Did you write a book?
Yours irreverently,
Newbie/experienced/perpetrator!


& earlier otmab wrote:
>Why isn't there a committee that you need to contact if you want to make a change to the Arapiles? It definitely wouldn't be the VCC. It'd be a small group of volunteers in Natimuk. If you wanted to put a bolt in (etc.) you'd have to talk to the committee. If you didn't, your bolts would be ripped out.

Why not VCC? Why not Parks Vic? Why not the Federation of European Arapiles Holiday Climbers?
… I imagine the amount of discord amongst any of them would be about equal to that in Natimuk! Heh, heh, heh.


>Small, local committees for local issues can work extremely well. They're functional, and efficient.

~> It depends on who is on them, and whether they are altruistic or not!


>I wouldn't advocate this for other crags - but the Arapiles is special. It's a treasure, in a global sense, and I want my son, and his children, to experience it in the same way I have.

That's noble, but why not the same for elsewhere? After all, my 'safety' might be different at a different location…

 Page 11 of 15. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 200 | 201 to 220 | 221 to 240 | 241 to 260 | 261 to 280 | 281 to 288
There are 288 messages in this topic.

 

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