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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 10 of 15. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 200 | 201 to 220 | 221 to 240 | 241 to 260 | 261 to 280 | 281 to 288
Author
Tiger Wall - Dribble Bolting?
simey
24/08/2009
9:49:11 PM
On 24/08/2009 brendan wrote:
>sorry are you talking about araplies or about various cliffs

Arapiles and other cliffs.
brendan
24/08/2009
10:18:58 PM
i really am trying to learn the history, development, ethics and enviromental concerns of various cliffs and climbs. thats why i have been traveling around the last couple of years to as many places and cliffs as i can (i have only been climbing for 4 years), can you tell me a place i can go to further my education? or was there something else you were trying to get at??
simey
24/08/2009
10:48:53 PM
I was emphasising the subtleties that might dictate why bolting is tolerated in certain situations and not in others.
brendan
24/08/2009
10:57:57 PM
thats ok, i thought you were having a go at my lack of experience : ) at the end of the day i dont really care about who bolted what, when, why, how. I think the whole thread started off with abit of a piss take about someone bolting an anchor that they thought as unnecessary at a trad cliff

rodw
24/08/2009
11:25:50 PM
Piss take on chocky..then it getting outta hand......that just dosn't happen does it ???? :)

The good Dr
24/08/2009
11:59:59 PM
On 24/08/2009 brendan wrote:>i really am trying to learn the history, development, ethics and enviromental>concerns of various cliffs and climbs. thats why i have been traveling>around the last couple of years to as many places and cliffs as i can (i>have only been climbing for 4 years), can you tell me a place i can go>to further my education? or was there something else you were trying to>get at??>

there are a number of great sources of climbing history in oz. try guidebooks (and not just the recent ones), climbing mags (ditto) and talking to the people who have been around for a long time (whose memories are still intact despite abuse from illicit substances). as an example the blue mountains climbing history extends back considerably further than arapiles with an interesting and long history as a 'trad' area. look back to some of the startling ascents by dot butler and dr dark and ask why in the blue mountains they did not continue that tradition and also why you accept the current status there and criticise elsewhere.

mattjr
25/08/2009
12:16:19 AM
On 24/08/2009 rodw wrote:
>Piss take on chocky..then it getting outta hand......that just dosn't happen
>does it ???? :)

Imagine an Arapiles with NO bolts, NO pitons... just traditional climbing.. NO EXCEPTIONS
Wendy
25/08/2009
7:33:41 AM
On 25/08/2009 mattjr wrote:
>On 24/08/2009 rodw wrote:
>>Piss take on chocky..then it getting outta hand......that just dosn't
>happen
>>does it ???? :)
>
>Imagine an Arapiles with NO bolts, NO pitons... just traditional climbing..
>NO EXCEPTIONS

Go on, why stop there - no chalk, no sticky rubber, no friends ... just hobnailed boots and hemp rope around the waist. I love that photo in Simey's guide of the early exploration of bard buttress.
mikepatt
25/08/2009
9:42:16 AM
On 24/08/2009 brendan wrote:
>so just to ease everyones mind, roberstonja (jason) is not a bolt nazi
>we have been in the Blue mountains for the last 3 days and have had fun
>climbing and clipping bolts, however that is the blue mountains, and every
>area has there own ethics and i think this is where the intial problem
>is. Jason is not complaining about someone painting numbers on a boulder
>in Fontainebleu or bolting a climb in Nowra, he is complaining about someone
>bolting a belay in a traditional climbing area, he obviously feels pissed
>off as someone has taken it upon themselves to bolt a belay on a trad route
>that was not bolted on the first ascent, the route sounds like a peice
>of shit anyway. Its the principal, just like when Robert McMahon & Gerry
>Narkowicz chopped there own abseil anchor on Ben Lomond to prove a principal
>about not bolting on Ben Lomond, if the belay was fiddly and gear hard
>to find when he was preparing the route for the guidebook maybe he should
>have included that in the guidebook, at the end of the day i don't really
>care, i just want araplies to be a trad cliff with strong ethics, look
>at the UK they have tiny little cliffs that are not world class but there
>ethics are what makes the place what it is, its the principle of the debate
>not the actual climb or bolts

Have you visited Gimmer crag in the Lake District Brendan? Deepest trad teritory, yet even there they've installed a bloody great chain to abseil off.. to minimise gully ersosion. Read a bit more about the history of Gimmer and the other Lake District cargs and you'll find lots of abseil inspection, top roing before leading, chipping etc etc... and since when have ethics ever been applied to Arapiles???
mikepatt
25/08/2009
12:14:04 PM
On 24/08/2009 brendan wrote:
>so just to ease everyones mind, roberstonja (jason) is not a bolt nazi
>we have been in the Blue mountains for the last 3 days and have had fun
>climbing and clipping bolts, however that is the blue mountains, and every
>area has there own ethics and i think this is where the intial problem
>is. Jason is not complaining about someone painting numbers on a boulder
>in Fontainebleu or bolting a climb in Nowra, he is complaining about someone
>bolting a belay in a traditional climbing area, he obviously feels pissed
>off as someone has taken it upon themselves to bolt a belay on a trad route
>that was not bolted on the first ascent, the route sounds like a peice
>of shit anyway. Its the principal, just like when Robert McMahon & Gerry
>Narkowicz chopped there own abseil anchor on Ben Lomond to prove a principal
>about not bolting on Ben Lomond, if the belay was fiddly and gear hard
>to find when he was preparing the route for the guidebook maybe he should
>have included that in the guidebook, at the end of the day i don't really
>care, i just want araplies to be a trad cliff with strong ethics, look
>at the UK they have tiny little cliffs that are not world class but there
>ethics are what makes the place what it is, its the principle of the debate
>not the actual climb or bolts

p.s. Hope you didn't climb the classic Goldstar at Mt Boyce, Cave Climb at the Neck, Joseph at Piddo, Honey Dip at Zig Zag; Jason may have got upset about the retro bolted lower offs/belays/raps on those routes to name but a few.
Hope you didn't climb at Shipley Upper, Piddo, Zig Zag, Mt York, Bardens etc etc etc lots of retro bolting at those crags there..

wallwombat
25/08/2009
12:42:31 PM
On 25/08/2009 mikepatt wrote:
>p.s. Hope you didn't climb the classic Goldstar at Mt Boyce, Cave Climb
>at the Neck, Joseph at Piddo, Honey Dip at Zig Zag; Jason may have got
>upset about the retro bolted lower offs/belays/raps on those routes to
>name but a few.


Sounds like convenience bolting to make guiding the above classics a lot less of a hassle.

I don't particularly agree with this and believe it makes leading those routes a different experience to leading them in their original state.

Is it worth getting my panties in a knot over?

Probably not.
hero
25/08/2009
12:44:36 PM
"talking to the people who have been around for a long time (whose memories are still intact despite abuse from illicit substances)"

DAMN!

Climboholic
25/08/2009
2:07:13 PM
On 25/08/2009 mikepatt wrote:
> ... and since when have ethics ever been applied to Arapiles???

Great point! Ethics don't apply at Mt Arapiles. Therefore, by the power vested in me by the Grand Wizard of internet forums, that states that my opinion is more worthy than any other, I decree that there will be no further discussion on bolting ethics at the mount EVER AGAIN.

Henceforth, Mount Arapiles will be designated a "safe" crag, where bumblies can frolic without any responsibility for their own safety and judgement. Those adrenaline junkies with a lust for adventure can travel to a place with a stronger trad ethic and zero bolts like... um... the Moon. (Someone would have to write a concerned letter to NASA about removing the Apollo landing craft as they degrade the clean ethic of the area). Lets face it, Mt Arapiles is so poplar these days that if we dont make all the climbs safe someone could GET HURT! We MUST modify the climbs so they are safe for everyone. After all, if you don't like bolts, just don't clip them.

Climboholic
25/08/2009
2:13:00 PM
Oh, I forgot about the convenience. Imagine how many climbs you could do a day if you didn't have to stuff around with that annoying trad gear.

But seriously:
- Good work Simey for putting in the time an effort to develop a climb for the enjoyment of others.
- Good work robertsonja for keeping bolting practices honest.

CLEAN ETHICS IS SOMETHING WE SHOULD NEVER STOP STRIVING FOR.
Wendy
25/08/2009
3:00:10 PM
On 25/08/2009 Climboholic wrote:

>Those adrenaline junkies with a lust for adventure can travel to a place
>with a stronger trad ethic and zero bolts like... um... the Moon.

I thought there were quite a few bolts at the Moon ...
BA
25/08/2009
4:12:21 PM
On 25/08/2009 Wendy wrote:

>I thought there were quite a few bolts at the Moon ...

Chuckle, chuckle
stonetroll
25/08/2009
8:00:52 PM
On 25/08/2009 Wendy wrote:
>On 25/08/2009 Climboholic wrote:
>
>>Those adrenaline junkies with a lust for adventure can travel to a place
>>with a stronger trad ethic and zero bolts like... um... the Moon.
>
>I thought there were quite a few bolts at the Moon ...


Nice cCaaatch . . . !

IdratherbeclimbingM9
26/08/2009
2:16:49 PM
X-link to the poll thread for the same issue.

Sabu
26/08/2009
3:54:13 PM
This is just getting stupid...


ajfclark
26/08/2009
3:55:48 PM
You missed one ;-)

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There are 288 messages in this topic.

 

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