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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 3 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 85
Author
Ben Nevis - Shame on you. What a waste of a crag.
simey
10/08/2009
8:42:48 PM
On 10/08/2009 Fish Boy wrote:
>I wouldn't mind doing Clouded Queen soon, but the 30 hook moves scare me.
>If there was a bolt every 3 metres the route would be much more popular.
>What a waste of a climb. The rock is here to serve us.

I wouldn't be using Clouded Queen as a good example for this argument. I reckon the hook pitch you talk about sounds like one of the more stupid pieces of climbing in Australia. Drilling thirty holes for direct aid so that a pitch will 'go' is pretty questionable. Drilling thirty holes but failing to place a bolt, thus facing a dangerous/deadly fall onto a ledge is even more silly.
Fish Boy
10/08/2009
9:31:51 PM
It isn't all drilled, I heard there was a bunch of natural placements, but yeah, it I agree with what you say.

simey
10/08/2009
9:35:46 PM
There is probably some decent (non-drilled) aiding on the other pitches.

Sarah Gara
10/08/2009
10:18:41 PM
>lots of you wrote: B-Y What's that?

I don't get the whole bolting concept. There's loads to climb that don't need bolts. Although i'm open to to the concept. Just don't know much about it. I wouldn't want the bolts more than 2m apart though - I get scared going that much higher above my last bit of gear.

>15 m between bolts...

No way man - not for me. Is there normal gear between this? -although unlikely on granite.

>In the pissed off thread Wall wombat wrote:
>I'm pissed off that Chockstone has been so boring in the last couple of days that I have had >to log onto rockclimbing.com and bait Americans. I hope things pick up, as I don't really >want to resort to posts on UKClimbing.com about bolting and chipping gritstone. They go >ape shit!

Thought we gonna have full out fight there for a min. I don't like fights - flowers and happy trees guys... Fish boy you are vicious!!! x (see kiss in brackets to show I'm not being judgemental.) do you have to be quite so forcefull in disagreeing. Boys...

And which of you is Brad? Ahhh It's so hard to keep up. Ahhh you lot need to appreciate how dull robinvale is.. usually I wouldn't care... Robinvale has a cinema twice a week!! - twice a week guys. x

Sarah Gara
10/08/2009
10:21:31 PM
On 10/08/2009 Sarah Gara wrote:
>>lots of you wrote: B-Y What's that?

looked it up.

How do you climb a blank wall without "murdering the impossible"? The author adopts a style that lets him have his pristine adventure and climb it, ground up, too. The result: the Bachar-Yerian, a mental testpiece that still defines boldness and traditional climbing twenty-eight years later.

for anyone that cares who didn't know.

> Ahhh you lot
>need to appreciate how dull robinvale is.. usually I wouldn't care... Robinvale
>has a cinema twice a week!! - twice a week guys. x

and that night is not tonight. x
rolsen1
11/08/2009
8:27:36 AM
Again, I haven't climbed at Ben Nevis and I'm not suggesting to retro anything.

On 9/08/2009 Tlockwood wrote:
>i found this article to be quite interesting, with a lot of good thoughts
>on todays cultures of climbing, in terms of people 'sport' climbing on
>trad climbs and vice versa.

I finally got round to reading this and I don't think this article has anything to do with the original post (just like the clouded queen example.) Maybe if these climbing were mid 20s or mid 30s you'd have a point but these climbs are mid teens. No one is rapping down them and claiming head points, when they get climbed it is probably just moderate climbers being a bit more scared than they need to be.

On 10/08/2009 gfdonc wrote:
>On 10/08/2009 Fish Boy wrote:
>>A question of ethics? I took a bouldering pad because I'm a pussy.
>
>Yeah, that's the other example I keep getting asked to defend. I confess,
>these days I rap down it and clip a sling to the first bolt. Still don't
>think it needs another bolt in it though.

Sorry I didn't realise they were your routes but they serve a good example (I was there on Saturday) because the just around the arete are climbs 6 and 8 grades harder, and guess what they have more bolts. The 19 has a single bolt and the 28 a few metres from it has lots (actually I don't know how many bolts it has but they are about 2m apart instead of 5)

The point of the original post was that easy / moderate climbs would be more accessible to everybody if they were bolted the way they would have been if they were 10 grades harder.
Fish Boy
11/08/2009
8:53:44 AM
I'm sorry if you missed my point rolsen regarding Clouded Queen.

If the rock doesn't suit you, go somewhere else. The first ascentionist stepped up to the task of interpreting how to move up the rock and future parties need not modify the character of a route, just their own abilities.

Believe it or not, some people actually enjoy runout slab. 15m is not far at all, and if it is to you, look elsewhere.

Is this a hard concept to grasp?!?!?!

ajfclark
11/08/2009
9:14:17 AM
On 11/08/2009 Fish Boy wrote:
>Believe it or not, some people actually enjoy runout slab. 15m is not far at all, and if it is to you, look elsewhere.

When it's well below what I'm capable of, yes it can be fun. Definitely makes you focus on what you're doing a lot more.

When it's not, it's not so much fun.

Usually I have an idea of what I'm in for before I start climbing it though.
widewetandslippery
11/08/2009
10:13:37 AM
I've found part of the adventure in climbing is taking the good with the bad, going to new places and going to old places with new eyes. There are a lot of crags out there.

I've gone to crags before and thought they provided wholly self indulgent and inconvienient routes. Soft c--k days. Other days same crags and I'm inspired.
BA
11/08/2009
12:06:31 PM
One of Baxter's routes at the Ben had its bolts/pitons placed on lead in the rain. He was then roundly criticised by others on subsequent ascents who found acceptable passive pro.

Before Ben Nevis had been climbed on, people had looked at the cliffs and decided that the slabs needed too much bolting and left them alone. They made a choice, just as you can make a choice not to climb there because the style/setting/protection/access/et cetera does not meet you criteria/needs. Climbing is about variety, not homogenisation.

JimboV10
11/08/2009
12:15:56 PM
Just put up a FA and bolt it how you like :)

JBM
11/08/2009
12:33:17 PM
>The point of the original post was that easy / moderate climbs would be
>more accessible to everybody if they were bolted the way they would have
>been if they were 10 grades harder.

Bingo!! We have a winner!!

Bolting, by nature is bringing down the rock/route to your level of comfort. By definition, if
you are going to place a bolt then you should bolt reasonably.

There is a lot of ranting here about "preserving adventure", "you're a pussy, go climb
something else" and/or "know your limits".

Bad bolting is self-indulgent. Call them "test-pieces" - I call them selfish acts of waste.

If you're such a hard ass - then don't place bolts. If you're going to go to the trouble of
marring the rock and whacking in a first ascent using bolts - then do it properly.

Someone made the point earlier that there are other places to climb if you don't like it.
That's not the point.

I use our environment as a metaphor and our use of natural resources. If we don't like
the mess we've made with your own natural resources then go use someone else's.
That's why our environment is a mess.

The rock is a natural resource - I challenge that it is being wasted by NOT allowing it to
be used effectively. This waste is further compounded by the fact that the same
perpetrators then go waste another resource in the same style.

Well actually - a whole generation did this.

Well I'm done with this topic now. Suppose the American is done baiting the
Australians.... ;-)

Superstu
Online Now
11/08/2009
12:48:23 PM
On 11/08/2009 JBM wrote:
>Well I'm done with this topic now. Suppose the American is done baiting
>the Australians.... ;-)



"JBM: Total douche or master troll. You decide"




Fish Boy
11/08/2009
12:57:47 PM
Brad, the rock isn't going to waste if we dont put more bolts in! Are you serious?

What you call bad bolting is a reflection of stance drilling a slab. A FA doesn't have a prescribed bolt pattern to follow so that others will be safe. If the FA is an onsight, ground up attempt, then the climber will deal with the issues of an ascent on the way up in whatever matter they choose. Anyone who follows naturally has the same chance of experiencing what happened on the FA.

Being bold and self indulgent are the reasons so many people climb. It is worth striving to be bold to test one self, and being self indulgent is fantastic.

Please leave these climbs alone otherwise a little bit of history is gone...
widewetandslippery
11/08/2009
12:59:20 PM
I admire acts of self indulgence, in climbing terms whatever that be. eg No Beans for Bonzo. Version 1 & 2 were both self indulgent and brilliant. Its originality in self indulgence thats important.
gfdonc
11/08/2009
1:06:04 PM
On 11/08/2009 Fish Boy wrote:
>Please leave these climbs alone otherwise a little bit of history is gone...

I'm more upset about large bits of history. Take Hanging Rock, probably *the* most historic crag in Vic, closed for 25 years now and completely lost. Let's get upset about that instead. Oh, and there are some bolts there, too.

Sorry to sound like I'm hijacking but I think the point about preserving history on some - let's face it, not well bolted nor well-frequented - cliff in Western Vic is fatuous. Alis got new chains recently, anyone complain about the loss of history?

pmonks
11/08/2009
1:15:39 PM
On 11/08/2009 superstu wrote:
>On 11/08/2009 JBM wrote:
>>Well I'm done with this topic now. Suppose the American is done baiting
>>the Australians.... ;-)
>
>"JBM: Total douche or master troll. You decide"

Given the bolting "ethics" in the US, I don't think there's much of a decision to be made. ;-)

My weekend just reinforced this - on Saturday I did a sustained ~grade 15 pitch that had one bolt 30 feet out from the belay, then 60 feet without any pro whatsoever. Then on Sunday I did a ~grade 17 slab pitch that had 7 bolts in 40m (so very well protected by Tuolomne standards), but they were all crappy button heads, including 2 of the 3 belay bolts! And it's not like the route was ancient either - it was bolted in 1992!!

Like I said in the OFFICIAL STOKED THREAD:

"...when it comes to bolting issues the seppos are, almost to a person, completely retarded.

They'll praise some ridiculously bolted route, provided the bolts were put in on lead (eg. "Solid Gold" in Joshua Tree - #$^&ing terrible bolting!!!), then slam someone for putting in rap anchors on an existing super-popular trade route 5 minutes from the car ("Cryin Time Again"), even though modern rap anchors exist on nearby routes (eg. the "Water Cracks"). And all we're talking about here are rap anchors on the existing (bolted!) belays - not the addition of new lead bolts!!"

ajfclark
11/08/2009
1:44:25 PM
On 11/08/2009 gfdonc wrote:
>I'm more upset about large bits of history. Take Hanging Rock, probably *the* most historic crag in Vic, closed for 25 years now and completely lost. Let's get upset about that instead. Oh, and there are some bolts there, too.

I've only a recent migrant to Victoria. What happened with Hanging Rock? It that really a seat belt spool hammered in to the rock?

pmonks
11/08/2009
1:49:30 PM
On 11/08/2009 ajfclark wrote:
>I've only a recent migrant to Victoria. What happened with Hanging Rock?
> It that really a seat belt spool hammered in to the rock?

They were sick of schoolgirls on climbing trips being abducted by aliens.

ajfclark
11/08/2009
1:51:52 PM
On 11/08/2009 pmonks wrote:
>They were sick of schoolgirls on climbing trips being abducted by aliens.

I thought cams protected people not abducted them... at least when they don't fall apart... ;-)

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There are 85 messages in this topic.

 

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