Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Author

lets talk about lost gear,... now also booty found


IdratherbeclimbingM9

27-Feb-2004
7:45:55 PM

>AndyCJ
>The other thing I wanted to mention was the ethics involved in grabbing gear left in climbs/belay points that climbers have (coz Marion had to leave a screwgate behind (snip)

Booty is booty.
If I (or others) come across it in dry conditions we would likely snaffle it and consider it par for the course. Likewise if I had an epic on a wet day (even on an easy climb), if I needed to ... I would leave as much of my rack as necessary to get off it.
If others managed to snaffle my (abandoned) gear before I got back to it, then good luck to them, as I consider it booty if I abandon it no matter how 'safety' the reason for leaving it in the 1st place (wet or otherwise).

tastybigmac

29-Feb-2004
10:19:07 AM

The only gear anyone has ever returned to me is a hex that was "borrowed" from my tent by a friend and then left at the base of a climb. that was a good surprise because i never new it was gone.

i always return gear to its original owner if i find out who it is. usually i require some form of compensation for my hard work though. beer is good, but items such as cams are a bit more expensive.

i have had a cam stolen from the top of a crag once. they left everything else. i was only a few meters away when they would have done it. Is that booty too?


remdan

29-Feb-2004
2:40:01 PM

id say gear steelers are bastards! and found gear should always be at least attempted to reach the rightful owner

dan


IdratherbeclimbingM9

1-Mar-2004
9:13:36 AM

On 25/02/2004 trent wrote:
>I heard a story about someone swiping fixed pitons off a climb
>at the Warrumbungles. Aparrently there were two pitons in situ and the
>climber removed one so that it could be rapped off lower down the climb.
> When climbing in the bungles pitons are like a gift from the gods and
>for someone to take one so that they didnt have to sacrific their own gear
>down lower is just plain rude and selfish.

I heard that story too, and I also heard that the knifeblade piton in question was 'non original' (a retro-piton to the original ascent); a poor placement; and even though a 'retro', it was replaced on a (soon after) subsequent ascent of the line by that climber.

A few points can be learnt from this.
* Never assume fixed gear is still in-situ. Especially on adventure climbs.
* If fixed gear is insitu; then never assume it is OK to use as its placement could have deteriorated over time.
* The nature of the face below which they retreated off, lent itself to blade type pitons rather than nuts or larger pieces.

I have a few questions from this incident too.

If a climber feels the need to leave or re-use gear, to safely get off a climb, ... are they litterbugs, "rude and selfish" vandals, or basically capable self-reliant climbers?

Whatever the answer to the above, how does this fit with that same party having to be rescued by not leaving gear to retreat or worse still, suffering an accident through 'moralistically' trying to use what turns out to be inappropriate retreat gear, (rescue again?) if they did not take that self reliant action??

On large adventure climbs,
>bungles pitons are like a gift from the gods
would not a 're-used' piton fall into this catagory if one came across it in the middle of a large relatively blank expanse of face?

When is gear fixed anyway? A piton may not be 'modern gear' but when is a retro-piton (obviously newer than other types on a given climb) given the same status of 'rude and selfish if removed', if someone feels a genuine need (as opposed to souveniering [sp?]) for it?

For my 2c worth, it can be summed up by saying the Warrumbungles IS adventure climbing (with ALL that adventure entails), and
> (Trent again) "Booty is BOOTY. If you decide to leave it then you decide to LOSE it.
Once left, you have little call over what happens to it.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

1-Mar-2004
9:32:29 AM

More questions with the same flavour but slightly different topic.

Recent opinion is that the 'aid bolt' presently still on Sultan at Mt Buffalo will soon be removed;
... could be a shock to those who might want to repeat the climb assuming it to still be there, as its (rightly or wrongly) been used regularly for 20+ years now by climbers of 'only average' ability.

Does a long period of precedent or expectation lead to some kind of ongoing obligation?

When does technological advancement (large cams in this case) negate history?

Is history worth preserving, even in the 'transition stage' of newer technology becoming common usage?

bne

1-Mar-2004
11:54:42 AM

Why does a biner have to be left to rap off a fixed hanger. i have been with people here in mexico where an 8mm loop of prussic cord is put through the hanger and also tied to the rope. basically a retrievable rap anchor. this seems quite simple. is it unsafe? to me it seems ok. there is little friction on the rope as it is not moving while it is weighted.


Richard

1-Mar-2004
12:40:08 PM

Hmmm, which nice freindly area was this cliff at, Will??


adski

2-Mar-2004
11:44:47 PM

I've definitely ended up with more booty than i've lost. Peak season is approaching, the easter long weekend yields *huge* returns for doing the classic middle grade climbs. I've pulled a set of nuts from the base of the cloisters @ booroomba, single nuts galore at Araps, a micro cam off piccolo...

The best was after sieging Glory Rodent and trashing a #2 hb cam we went to Buffalo and found an immaculate, identical piece on Maharajah! What are the odds.

The only instance I've left gear is when I was seconding a first time natural leader (duh!) on XI, she led the entire thing on RP's and Micro-nuts. I chose to leave 4 tinies behind for someone else with a nut tool as I didn't want to ruin the wires and render the fragile things useless. Lesson in that one ....


Hardware

4-Mar-2004
10:31:43 AM

Never found booty but I have lost a brand new pink KONG screwgate. I left it at the top of a climb at Weribee Gorge, We saw the clouds roll in from the west and decided to make a run for the car. Still got drenched though and only realised that it was missing when I was at the car. :(


neats

4-Mar-2004
10:45:36 AM

some of my cord was used for an anchor for one of the climbs at Mt Buffalo and I forgot all about it... It was returned to me about a month later after the honest person who had it asked people if anyone was missing it! :-)

Nico

4-Mar-2004
10:55:30 AM

... hmmm ... some curly definitions here. Is a rope ever booty? We left one behind once, in the confusion of a night departure from Booroomba, hurrying to get to Tharwa for a beer before the shop closed ... eventually some honest folks from Outward Bound returned the rope to us. If a rope becomes booty, would you trust it? I've certainly got more serendipitous bits of metal on my rack, than things that I ever bought. But if I find nylon slings they become useful tie-down cords for the ute, and the occasional nut-on-cord gets the new cord treatment. Carabiners? I've heard of laboratory tests showing hairline fractures in dropped metal - but there are plenty of ways of using a doubtful carabiner and not wasting a good climbing krab for carrying shoes or chalk or camera. And we talk about climbing ethics ... :)


nmonteith

4-Mar-2004
11:00:43 AM

Lee and I found a new looking rope stashed under a rock on the way down from East ledges descent on El Cap in Yosemite. It was covered in old dead leaves and i don't think anyone had touched it for at least a year. We spent half an hour in the area looking around and found hundreds of old stashed water bottles, bits of rope and food left behind from ascents of el cap. Since i spent several days picking up rubbish/shit bags in the area i felt i deserved anything i found!


neats

4-Mar-2004
11:39:36 AM

did you put the rope to any good use?


nmonteith

4-Mar-2004
12:04:20 PM

Lee took it. Not sure how much use it got - but if it was me it woudl have turned into my new lead rope!


neats

4-Mar-2004
12:05:13 PM

so you obviously would have trusted it...


nmonteith

4-Mar-2004
12:09:18 PM

Hell yere! But i generally trust any old crap. I bought an old secondhand rope in the USA off a guy in camp4 for $20 - I then used it fulltime for the next 12 months as a lead, hauling, tyrolen, caving, canyoning and rap rope. It never died. I had to throw it out as i thought i must have been really pushing my luck.


manacubus

4-Mar-2004
12:13:04 PM

Yeah I used it, and am still using it on occasion. It's not bad! I do have 8 ropes though, so I have a variety to choose from these days.

Like Neil, I trust almost everything.


climbau

5-Mar-2004
11:00:25 AM

Adski,
I'mm assuming that you scored that #2 HB just recently. Did it take much persuading to retrieve?


adski

29-Apr-2004
2:23:43 PM

ah, now i think about it, it was a blue hb, 1.5. I didn't get it recently, actually about six years ago.. the day was so windy our ropes got twisted on the rappel off the cathedral, requiring a 50m prussik and subsequent serious sheath damage - yin-yang!


jezz

29-Apr-2004
2:50:54 PM

what about when everyone knows that you lost something?.... say a pair of shoes? and you still haven't got them back after several weeks? is it a lost case now?!

There are 96 messages in this topic.