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lets talk about lost gear,... now also booty found


Tel

25-Feb-2004
2:13:57 PM

after reading a post by Andy, he mentioned some gear that had to be left behind. So I am wondering how often this happens and what is the general feeling by people that come across gear left behind.
Obviously chockstone is an excellent forum to make the first steps to try and return gear, so possibly a lost and found section could be placed on the site if mike is able to do so and it doesn't prove to troublesome.


nmonteith

25-Feb-2004
3:15:44 PM

Generally the ethics as i have learned is that gear left behind or stuck is abandoned and thus BOOTY!!! I have spent many hours scouting Arapiles easy routes in the endless search for the elusive stuck cam.


trent

25-Feb-2004
4:02:04 PM

Booty is BOOTY. If you decide to leave it then you decide to LOSE it.

Its all part of embarking on an adventurous route. If you have to bail from a route (being it due to weather or physical limits) you have to accept that you may have to sacrifice some gear in order to return to the ground safely.

I think it is unreasonable and detracts from the adventure of climbing to start a route thinking to yourself, "self - if you cant send the crux or it starts to rain and you have to bail, it will be alright. The next person that climbs this route will recover all your gear and safely return it."

If you have to bail, it is completely up to YOU how much gear you sacrifice to the booty gods in order to get down. Skimp on a rap anchor and you run the risk of it failing. Set a bombproof 2 cam, 2 nut belay for each rap and you run the risk of having to sell everything you have to replace them. Its what makes climbing such a unique sport. You make the decisions and you live with the consequences.

If you do leave gear behind that you cant bear to part with find enough rope and rap the entire route the next day to claim back what you abandoned.

Likewise gear that is forgotten at the base of a crag. I have a habit of checking all my gear before i pack up after a day of climbing. I check my cams, wires, draws, slings and ropes. If someone is dumb enough to forget an item from their rack then im smart enough to pick it up and claim it as BOOTY.

Joe

25-Feb-2004
4:18:34 PM

Booty is Booty but if you steal gear off a route that someone has intentionally left you are scum of the earth.


trent

25-Feb-2004
4:42:02 PM

Right on. I heard a story about someone swiping fixed pitons off a climb at the Warrumbungles. Aparrently there were two pitons in situ and the climber removed one so that it could be rapped off lower down the climb. When climbing in the bungles pitons are like a gift from the gods and for someone to take one so that they didnt have to sacrific their own gear down lower is just plain rude and selfish.

dalai

25-Feb-2004
4:48:56 PM

If there is a random piece of gear lying around obviously left behind the reality is that the owner has abandoned it and the onus then is to you whether you trust your life to gear you don't know the history of. (Who ever bails on the newest gear on the rack?)

I agree with Joe though where gear is left in place on climbs whilst being worked is deplorable and should not be tolerated.

But the Booty mentality for any gear left for only a couple of minutes at the crag is well entrenched in Australian climbing. An example was when my girlfriend at the time was working India at Arapiles. We were walking from the car to the climb one morning and crossed paths with a middle aged man perfectly fitting the 'trad' climber profile - complete with beard and wool pants. He was staring at Uncle Charlies pinnacle drooling... His comment to us after greetings was how much booty was left behind for him to score!!

AndyCJ

25-Feb-2004
4:57:04 PM

yep - Tel is right, this was started because I mused about leaving behind a screwgate biner on a single bolt (with hanger) rap point. It was raining so the scramble off was a no go.

I have no doubt that the next person along will grab this and do the downclimb. But, this gear was left to intentionally make something safe? Do YOU steal gear like this??

Mostly I just think climbers have confused ethics. Mostly they put the word "ethics" in place of the word "ego."... and then go on and on about it!!! eh eh eh! And mostly they are broke as hell, so any BOOTY as such is a joy to their hearts! (their broke ass bum hearts that is!!)

It's BOOTY time,
Andy

Q: If you found a wallet on the street would you hand it into the police?


Tel

25-Feb-2004
4:59:50 PM

On 25/02/2004 trent wrote:
>Booty is BOOTY. If you decide to leave it then you decide to LOSE it.
Likewise gear that is forgotten at the base of a crag.
>. If someone is dumb enough to forget
>an item from their rack then im smart enough to pick it up and claim it
>as BOOTY.
ok so booty is booty:... but then what do you when said dumb person is say for eg at his car when you get back, do you choose to claim the booty right or no.. or another scenario wherein you hear of someone that has lost gear near to where you have picked up.
or are we dealing soley with conscience...
I do get the booty is booty, but on the other hand I reckon I would feel pretty crap if I didn't return someones peice if I knew they had lost it ...which is more along the lines of what I was originally getting at.

joemor

25-Feb-2004
5:11:37 PM

theres a difference between finding bail gear or "stuck" gear and finding gear dropped on the way to the car.... the leaver of the bail or "stuck " gear has decided to leave it behind.. while dropping gear on the way to the car has not been a choice made by them...


nmonteith

25-Feb-2004
5:19:37 PM

I question the logic in saying that a screwgate left behind makes it 'safer'. It does the opposite it my mind - it now encourages people to rap off a single bolt rather than downclimbing down the back. If i see tat or a biner on a single piece of fixed gear i will remove it.

I was talking to a friend last night who was telling me about some booty he picked up on a route at the Hazards in Tassie. I described to him the exact booty he had got as i relaized it was mine i had left behind 3 weeks earlier!! I let him keep it - booty is booty.


Tel

25-Feb-2004
5:39:04 PM

On 25/02/2004 nmonteith wrote:

>
>I was talking to a friend last night who was telling me about some booty
>he picked up on a route at the Hazards in Tassie. I described to him the
>exact booty he had got as i relaized it was mine i had left behind 3 weeks
>earlier!! I let him keep it - booty is booty.

interesting... seems as thought the BOOTY clause is written in stone, pardon the pun, well I kind of thought that it would all be the opposite, considering the expense gear runs into, I am trying to figure out how long it would take to save to buy a basic rack( use of which comes a little bit later),ala rock hardware 'intermediate rack $599'. so to me each piece is quite precious, but maybe thats the part of my thinking that is wrong.

dalai RE: He was staring at Uncle Charlies pinnacle drooling...
geez sounds a little vulturistic mate
cheers all
terry


manacubus

25-Feb-2004
5:47:11 PM

Someone actually did Trucks Neil? Yuck! Was it the smiley?

joemor

25-Feb-2004
5:49:12 PM

if your out there enough it all evens out.. ive lost a bit and found a bit...

which brings me to the question...... What have you guys scored??


nmonteith

25-Feb-2004
5:54:17 PM

Best ever... 1 cam connecteed by screwgate to two etriers at the base of el cap in yosemite. It was just lying on the ground - i presume it fell from way way up in the sky!

joemor

25-Feb-2004
6:00:58 PM

are they the etriers that u use now?


nmonteith

25-Feb-2004
6:03:15 PM

Yep - and the cam also of coarse. It was a gold HB walk-a-lot model.

mikl law

25-Feb-2004
6:37:09 PM

Don't take gear that is obviously not abandoned (a bit wierd, a climb with every draw is work in progress and you'd never touch it, but a single biner is booty and you'll gladly break a leg to get it).

I have about 140 crabs and 20 cams, of which I've bought about 20%.

Oh yes, crabs don't shatter


mousey

25-Feb-2004
6:39:00 PM

only thing ive ever found is a draw and a belay biner/atc lying at the bottom of project near where i was bolting. problem was, i know whos project it is, hence who it belongs to, and im surre he wants it back (dont worry steve i wasnt going to keep it- you would see it on my rack and quietly take me off belay)


HM33

25-Feb-2004
7:50:18 PM

yeah cough it up josh. thanks again for finding it

joemor

25-Feb-2004
7:58:24 PM

ive found two cams and a bunch of wires, slings and a few biners..... an atc a walkie talkie and some other bits and pieces....

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