Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Author

"mirrorball raps" and other inaccessible threads


wallwombat

2-Feb-2009
7:19:19 PM

I understand the idea behind them.......but.....no, actually I don't...... so why are interesting and potentially life saving threads such as the "Mirrorball raps" thread locked away in the "Members Only" Safer Cliffs Victoria part of this website.

What is safe about exclusive information that isn't available to the general public?

I imagine that cliffs everywhere would be safer if this kind of info was accessible to all.

Just my 2c worth.

And the Mirrorball isn't even bloody in Victoria!


IdratherbeclimbingM9

2-Feb-2009
7:23:54 PM

Some folk are looking out for 'developers', who prefer to remain low key while ever litigation is a potential issue?

>And the Mirrorball isn't even bloody in Victoria!
... though for you to raise the subject, you would have had to have accessed the info already?


wallwombat

2-Feb-2009
7:28:51 PM

On 2/02/2009 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>Some folk are looking out for 'developers', who prefer to remain low key
>while ever litigation is a potential issue?

That doesn't wash.

I'm sure if some one really wanted to litigate, their lawyers could go through ever nook and cranny of this site without a hitch.

Not having total transparency, makes litigation MORE of a potential issue, as far as I'm concerned.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

2-Feb-2009
7:30:58 PM

I guess SCV will have to meet your need then...


wallwombat

2-Feb-2009
7:38:52 PM

I don't really give a rats arse but I was looking through the threads on the SCV part of the forums and only about 2/3 of the post actually pertain to Victoria. They are safety issues and information that's significance is nation wide and would only be of benefit to everyone who ropes up or clips fixed gear anywhere.

Of all the subjects that you would think should have universal access, SAFETY is the biggy.

We all had a bitch about the media and their treatment of rock climbing recently. How would the press view this kind of exclusivity of information in regards to safety.

psd

2-Feb-2009
7:44:46 PM

This has come up before and I think anyone can get access if they ask. The justification (as I recall) for the extra layer of security being to ensure that anyone with access to those threads uses a real name and isn't an anonymous troll. That seemed fair enough to me but I'm not sure how they figure that out from an email. Anyway as a NSW'er who likes climbing at pierces pass that thread title also got me very interested so I have also asked for access - we'll see what happens I guess.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

2-Feb-2009
7:48:04 PM

I have no issue with your (WW) position on this matter, but on a similar theme; are the results of Coronial Enquiries available for 'universal access'?

I would have thought such sources of info, along with the Australian Accident Register, to also be relevant if we are talking ~>
>SAFETY is the biggy.

As an aside.
I don't agree that climbing need be 'safe'.


wallwombat

2-Feb-2009
7:56:10 PM

OK, I'll fess up.

My name is not really Adam Bridwell-Sharma.

It's Adam Herdman.

I realise I could probably get access if I ask. But I'm f#cked if I'm going to.

All I am saying is that the one part of these forums that is probably the most important in regard to safety is also the least accessable the majority of users.

It's probably a personal thing - I've always hated exclusivity and I've always hated snobs and as far as I'm concerned this is just another form of snobbery.


nmonteith

2-Feb-2009
8:03:37 PM

The Safer Cliffs forum is managed by me. It is 'members only' locked down for two reasons. The foremost reason is that many subjects being discussed are in the semi-legal variety - and we need a place to openly discuss problems without the threat of the media or land managers knowing everything we talk about. We have all recently experienced mainstream media quoting verbatim from this forum - and I can assure you there is plenty of juicy material if they went looking. Rangers and other land managers also view these forums every day - i'd prefer they didn't directly know the identity of people bolting.

Anyone who is an active climber is welcome to join in the discussion if they email me directly - with a real name. In the past we have big problems with anonymous trollers on these forums who loved to stir up the pot with pages of dribble. I want the Safer Cliffs forums to be full of facts not dribble. It is NOT a pro-bolting sport climbers love-in. If you have an opinion sign up and get involved.

At the moment the info at safercliffs.org email address is not working (not sure how long this has been!) so please email me direct using the email address on my profile. Just tonight I enabled about twenty of the most active members of this forum who were not already members - so please check you can't access the forum now before emailing me!


IdratherbeclimbingM9

2-Feb-2009
8:11:12 PM

On 2/02/2009 wallwombat wrote:
>I realise I could probably get access if I ask. But I'm f#cked if I'm
>going to.
Why?

>All I am saying is that the one part of these forums that is probably
>the most important in regard to safety is also the least accessable the
>majority of users.
No offence to anyone interested in/associated with the recent tragic accident, but I am not convinced that SCV (or equivalent information sources elsewhere), would necessarily have changed the outcome to that incident.
Ironically not least due to the time lag between certain actions, and the information actually getting to concerned peoples; ... but I guess this is what you are saying too, as the reason for making it more accessable!!

>It's probably a personal thing - I've always hated exclusivity and I've
>always hated snobs and as far as I'm concerned this is just another form
>of snobbery.
You are a climber, yes? Due being a minority group (compared to some), we are snobs? No?


wallwombat

2-Feb-2009
8:18:02 PM

On 2/02/2009 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>I have no issue with your (WW) position on this matter, but on a similar
>theme; are the results of Coronial Enquiries available for 'universal access'?

Eventually.

>I would have thought such sources of info, along with the Australian Accident
>Register, to also be relevant if we are talking ~>

I just logged into the Australian Accident Register. It took 3 seconds and I didn't have to pass any kind of initiation test or provide identification.

>As an aside.
>I don't agree that climbing need be 'safe'.

WW&S would attest that neither do I but I think it should be as safe as you want it to be and having access to any information that may make the game safer, should not be "secret climbers business"

psd

2-Feb-2009
8:20:26 PM

On 2/02/2009 wallwombat wrote:
>>I just logged into the Australian Accident Register. It took 3 seconds
>and I didn't have to pass any kind of initiation test or provide identification.

Have now got access to the SCV threads - it took 3 seconds and the man with the latex glove was suprisingly gentle ...


nmonteith

2-Feb-2009
8:22:18 PM

Tomorrow I'll be renaming the forum simply 'Safer Cliffs' - rather than 'Safer Cliffs Victoria' - as this website as become a lot more of an Australian site rather than a Victorian one. It seems at least half of the queries about bolting involve NSW - so my aim is to make it more of a generic forum discussing bolting in Oz. I've moved a few relevant topics into this forum - so you'll now need to be a member to read them! Seriously - shoot me an email or a PM to get access. No snobbery involved...


nmonteith

2-Feb-2009
8:25:32 PM

You now have access Wallwombat. Please deliver the $375 membership fee to my PA at the Safer Cliffs yacht moored on Rose Bay.


wallwombat

2-Feb-2009
8:31:37 PM

On 2/02/2009 nmonteith wrote:
> Rangers and other land managers also view these forums
>every day - i'd prefer they didn't directly know the identity of people
>bolting.

Do you think these people are stupid?

All you need to do is go and buy the Blue Mountains Guide book or any other guide to a sport climbing area and you don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to work out who does the bolting.

> I want the Safer Cliffs forums to be full of facts not
>dribble.

Fair enough.

>It is NOT a pro-bolting sport climbers love-in.

Never said it was.

>If you have an opinion sign up and get involved.

"I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member." - Groucho Marx


wallwombat

2-Feb-2009
8:39:36 PM

On 2/02/2009 nmonteith wrote:
>Tomorrow I'll be renaming the forum simply 'Safer Cliffs' - rather than
>'Safer Cliffs Victoria' - as this website as become a lot more of an Australian
>site rather than a Victorian one.

This is true if only because of the amount of users compared to any other Australian climbing forum.

And I just want to say that I wasn't having a go at anyone in particular.

And thanks for the access, Neil, but you really shouldn't have told me about your yacht at Rose Bay.

I was a pirate in a former life.

Aaaaaarh!


nmonteith

2-Feb-2009
9:04:26 PM

On 2/02/2009 wallwombat wrote:
>On 2/02/2009 nmonteith wrote:
>> Rangers and other land managers also view these forums
>>every day - i'd prefer they didn't directly know the identity of people
>>bolting.
>
>Do you think these people are stupid?

Not stupid - they just don't need their noses rubbed in it. Put all the details in the public domain and someone might be forced to do something about it.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

2-Feb-2009
11:26:24 PM

Good reply nmonteith.


wallwombat

2-Feb-2009
11:43:13 PM

I agree.

It was a good reply but going by what you have said previously, there is absolutely nothing stopping a ranger or land manager from accessing this part of the forum by simply giving you his or her name and email and requesting membership.

So your point is moot, so to speak.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

2-Feb-2009
11:49:01 PM

... but if they are fair dinkum, then the moderator of that section can veto their membership.

There are 28 messages in this topic.