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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 4 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 75
Author
How smart / green are we all
Wendy
15-Dec-2008
12:37:23 PM
On 15/12/2008 evanbb wrote:
>Targets have been releasedin the ETS/CPRS white paper.
>
>5% below 2000 levels if we act alone
>15% below 200 levels if others help.
>
>Sad and weak if you ask me, but I'm a left wing lunatic that thinks there's
>about 2 Billion too many people on the planet.
>
>

15% below 200 levels would be great! Couldn't ask for more committment!

Can anyone be bothered doing the maths on where these put us in relation to the original Kyoto targets, which I think were about 10% above 1990 levels?

I'm a fellow left wing loony - ever done one of these ecological footprint calculators to see how many planets we would need to support the population if everyone had your lifestyle?

http://www.epa.vic.gov.au/ecologicalfootprint/globalFootprint/index.asp

The results are pretty scary. To get down to 1 planet, you need a small, sustainable, shared house, eat local, unprocessed food, preferably vego, use mostly public transport and bikes and refrain from OS climbing holidays.
devlin66
15-Dec-2008
12:56:42 PM
On 15/12/2008 Wendy wrote:
>The results are pretty scary. To get down to 1 planet, you need a small,
>sustainable, shared house, eat local, unprocessed food, preferably vego,
>use mostly public transport and bikes and refrain from OS climbing holidays.

What's wrong with that. Sounds like the perfect lifestyle to me. Pretty much what I mentioned needed doing a few posts back. There is more than enough climbing in Australia that we don't have to go overseas for it. Problem is a our life style is to entrenched and to live away from the morm takes a hell of alot of energy and will power. Not to say it can't be done though.

evanbb
15-Dec-2008
1:01:46 PM
On 15/12/2008 devlin66 wrote:
>What's wrong with that. Sounds like the perfect lifestyle to me.

I tend to agree. It's one of my major gripes about where I'm living in the Blueys, that the only alternative is to drive everywhere. Looking forward to being able to cycle around the ACT when we move. And buy food from local markets. It's better quality anyway.

Wendy
15-Dec-2008
1:27:20 PM
I definately don't see anything wrong with it, but I do think it's a long way from most people's lifestyles. It's scary when you think you are doing quite well, and discover you still need 4 planets to support 6 billion like you! Of course, when i take out the odd OS climbing trip it goes down, but it was still 1.7 planets or so. And if we took the average Western lifestyle, we're looking like 10-15 planets!

pmonks
15-Dec-2008
2:09:10 PM
On 15/12/2008 Wendy wrote:
>The results are pretty scary. To get down to 1 planet, you need a small,
>sustainable, shared house, eat local, unprocessed food, preferably vego,
>use mostly public transport and bikes and refrain from OS climbing holidays.

These kinds of lifestyles sound reasonable until you start a family, then you realise just how far beyond the realms of reality they are.
Lurking Dave
15-Dec-2008
2:12:24 PM
On 15/12/2008 Wendy wrote:

>Can anyone be bothered doing the maths on where these put us in relation
>to the original Kyoto targets, which I think were about 10% above 1990
>levels?

5-15% on 2000 is a 4-14% reduction on 1990 levels. Currently tracking at 108% of 1990.

Overall this is a weak arsed effort with far too much assistance being given out.

Cheers
LD
Wendy
15-Dec-2008
3:05:40 PM
Thanks Dave! So it appears our govt is trying to sound committed, but we are actually barely in the ball park of most European nations original Kyoto targets, not to mention way behind where we need to be.
Wendy
15-Dec-2008
3:15:04 PM
On 15/12/2008 pmonks wrote:
>On 15/12/2008 Wendy wrote:
>>The results are pretty scary. To get down to 1 planet, you need a small,
>>sustainable, shared house, eat local, unprocessed food, preferably vego,
>>use mostly public transport and bikes and refrain from OS climbing holidays.
>
>These kinds of lifestyles sound reasonable until you start a family, then
>you realise just how far beyond the realms of reality they are.

Hey the family is great for refraining from OS climbing holidays! And you are automatically sharing a house with 3+ people, kids love playing in the garden so you can grow your own veg whilst spending quality time with them, it's good for them to ride bikes, walk and to avoid processed food. They don't prevent you from living in a well insulated house with solar panels or green power, rainwater and recycling greywater. Where are the reality problems? Other than that population one, but at least you can bring up fit, healthy, openminded, environmentally aware kids.

pmonks
15-Dec-2008
4:00:35 PM
On 15/12/2008 Wendy wrote:
> Where are the reality problems?

The reality is that bringing up kids is bloody hard work and most parents (excluding enviro-greenie climber parents, of course *sarcastic cough*) will take advantage of whatever shortcuts are available if it reduces that workload.

Given that the vast majority of human beings on this planet (a) want to procreate and (b) are lazy bastards, I can't see much chance of a meaningful proportion of the western world's spoilt population choosing to cohabit, spending significant amounts of their spare time growing their own food, busting their guts pedalling (or carrying) their pre-self-propelled sprogs all over the place etc. etc., particularly if it means they'll no longer have time for the leisure activities (such as climbing) that help keep them sane.

There's no doubt in my mind that all these shortcuts are little more than a form of borrowing from future generations, but then we humans have never been good at anything other than short term thinking.

anthonyk
15-Dec-2008
4:22:02 PM
well if everyone was living such a lavish individualist lifestyle you would have less breeding going on, and potentially a lower stable population level. get the chinese and indians to be more decadent and westernised and if they follow the mould of every other western country their populations will level out or even go down. get the population factor down, add a bit of efficiency and it works out a lot better.
Wendy
15-Dec-2008
4:50:55 PM
On 15/12/2008 pmonks wrote:
>On 15/12/2008 Wendy wrote:
>> Where are the reality problems?
>
>The reality is that bringing up kids is bloody hard work and most parents
>(excluding enviro-greenie climber parents, of course *sarcastic cough*)
>will take advantage of whatever shortcuts are available if it reduces that
>workload.

Of course raising kids is hard work, but it doesn't instantly write off reducing your environmental impact, which is, as you noted, rather important for their future. Reducing our impact involves changing our lifestyles, whether we be single, coupled, kids or not, city or not, working or not etc etc. Having a family could be an inspiration for change as much as an obstacle for change. It's already such a big lifestyle change that you could try fitting in a few more for good measure. Think of the future you want for them. Plus there are heaps of opportunities to do things with kids that are good for the environment, and provide plenty of bonding, education and health opportunities for everyone. I pointed out just a few. Some off them could turn out to be good shortcuts too.

And the world is full of people who feel too lazy, it's too hard, it's not really a problem or can't look past the moment etc etc. Some of them have kids, some of them don't etc etc. That doesn't provide an excuse for being a sheep!
devlin66
15-Dec-2008
5:33:32 PM
Absolutely, and as we trundle along we really have no impetus for change other than what the goverment and experts all try to tell us. Not one of them can agree on the right course of action.

pmonks
15-Dec-2008
6:34:46 PM
On 15/12/2008 Wendy wrote:
>Having a family could be an inspiration for change as much as
>an obstacle for change.
> [other relevant points snipped]

While your points makes perfect sense to me (and likely other Chockstoners, given that we're probably all reasonably well educated, somewhat capable of rational thought, etc.) I just don't think these ideas appeal to the "average" westerner (let alone an illiterate subsistence farmer in Central America / Africa / the sub-continent / Asia). Humans are simply too lazy and short sighted - it's our nature.

The problem is neatly summed up as the Tragedy of the Commons.

>That doesn't provide an excuse for being a sheep!

Of course not, but at the same time I'm not naive enough to believe that my individual efforts are going to make a rats arse of difference until and unless the majority of westerners (not to mention the rapidly developing nations) choose (or are forced) to significantly curtail their lifestyles. And I just can't see that happening by choice.
Wendy
15-Dec-2008
9:22:53 PM
I don't really think enough change is going to happen by individual choice either, so i guess we can chalk up another 2 "ayes" in the topical regulation debate.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
28-Aug-2018
2:57:55 AM
On 15-Dec-2008 Wendy wrote:
>I don't really think enough change is going to happen by individual choice
>either, so i guess we can chalk up another 2 "ayes" in the topical regulation
>debate.

... & to continue an interesting O T thread - given the necromancy element of it, along with 6 different Prime Ministers in the last 8 years, we’re sure to get some action with our latest coal loving PM now!
Heh, heh, heh.

 Page 4 of 4. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 75
There are 75 messages in this topic.

 

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