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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 11 of 15. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 200 | 201 to 220 | 221 to 240 | 241 to 260 | 261 to 280 | 281 to 285
Author
climbing = dating?
Wendy
Online Now
29/10/2008
6:23:52 PM
On 29/10/2008 Sabu wrote:
I just dislike the attitude
>that the actual
>word "men" is so grotesque (in their opinion) that has to be censored!
>I should stop now
>because i'm heading into territory that is likely to leave me hung drawn
>and quartered!

Welcome to swimming amongst the worms! It's not that the word "men" is so grotesque that it needs to be censored, but an objection to the word man being at the base of the words "woman" and "human" and the implication that man is central to humanity and so on. I can see where the problem comes from but really, I just can't be bothered with it.

Sabu
29/10/2008
6:39:36 PM
On 29/10/2008 Wendy wrote:
>On 29/10/2008 Sabu wrote:
> I just dislike the attitude
>>that the actual
>>word "men" is so grotesque (in their opinion) that has to be censored!
>>I should stop now
>>because i'm heading into territory that is likely to leave me hung drawn
>>and quartered!
>
>Welcome to swimming amongst the worms!
Thats why i study neuroscience and not arts.... !

anthonyk
29/10/2008
6:58:18 PM
On 29/10/2008 Wendy wrote:
>Ok, probably. A mixture of being optomistic and trying not to tread too
>heavily on the toes of all those people telling me they like the idea of
>equality but didn't like feminism ...

i think one reason is because the term itself is vague and partisan, but I think this pops up in a number of places. at its core its supposed to be about prejudice, to get people to see things as they really are and not based on dodgy stereotypes, but in practise it draws in a lot pro-group and anti-group baggage that just gets in the way and even reinforces divisions. reverse discrimination and misandry are blunt instruments, they might have been useful as a kind of temper tantrum against (real) oppression in the past, but I think they lose value very quickly and target the wrong people in the end.

i think ppl should learn from the Obama approach, in his case to just leave race out of it entirely. move on. assume people are NOT racist and bigoted (or sexist) and focus on the issues. maybe get out the pro-girl and anti-male club when confronted with real bigots but otherwise leave it well alone. thats what "feminism" needs to learn, imho.

and also to recognise supporting the right kind of men is just as important as supporting the right kind of women. if it was about issues they would place just as much importance on promoting men that support gender equality as supporting women, but they don't. thankfully in the american election women started to recognise that a bit, there was a large block that was going to desert the democrats and vote mccain just because their girl didn't get in, but eventually they realised obama supported their issues better than palin and got back behind him, but it was up in the air for a while.

Wendy
Online Now
29/10/2008
7:04:34 PM
On 29/10/2008 hero wrote:
>OK, I don't like to do this, but
>
>"most people, men and women, in our society are largely in argeement with
>the principles of feminism"
>
>bullsh1t. Maybe in the circles you move.
>

Actually, the more I think about it, I'm quite traumatised by this idea! In my circles, we're probably looking at pretty much 100%. Ok, I accept that the majority of Australians have no interest in understanding the finer point of feminism. But do you really think, in that wider world that I try and avoid outside of work, we couldn't find a mere 51% of Australians agree with some basic (totally simplified i admit) statements like:
Domestic violence is a crime
Everyone has a right to education and work opportunities.
Female circumcision is mutilation

And disagree with others like
A woman's place is in the home
She was really asking for it dressed like that


Actually, there were those court cases in Adelaide in the 90s where judges were saying things in their summaries like, sometimes, when a woman says no, she really means yes, and sometimes it's reasonable for a man to use a little violence to persuade his wife to have sex. And that gang rape trail on Cape York within the last year where the judge dropped criminal charges against the perpetrators with a statement that the girl had in some way consented - ignoring that she was 10 or 13 and some of the perpetrators were 18 and 21!

Maybe I'll just go into a corner and cry now ...

tnd
30/10/2008
9:16:17 AM
On 29/10/2008 Wendy wrote:
>
>Female circumcision is mutilation
>

As is male circumcision.

BigMike
30/10/2008
9:59:29 AM
On 30/10/2008 tnd wrote:
>On 29/10/2008 Wendy wrote:
>>
>>Female circumcision is mutilation
>>
>
>As is male circumcision.

As is ear piercing.

Wendy
Online Now
30/10/2008
10:14:22 AM
On 30/10/2008 tnd wrote:
>On 29/10/2008 Wendy wrote:
>>
>>Female circumcision is mutilation
>>
>
>As is male circumcision.

Much as I agree that it's completely wrong to perform non medically necessary circumcision on unable to consent male children, it's not quite the same thing. If (all squeamish people may like to stop reading) you were to have the whole kit and kaboodle lopped off and your anus sown up you'd have something resembling what happens to female children in some cultures.

Aside from the minimal risks, lack of ongoing problems and issues of possession, acceptability and power in ear piercing which put it in a totally different basket, it is usually performed on consenting participants. But if you wanted to get deeper into the worms, I do think there's a slippery slope from many western "beauty" practices that ends up at female circumcision.


westie
30/10/2008
10:17:36 AM
On 29/10/2008 Cookie wrote:
>
>>>i'll remember to cover up especially well when i climb on tuesdays...
>>
>>Umm, most people would say Westie wrote something pretty nice there.
>Isn't
>>it good when guys prefer women who get out there and do stuff?
>
>sorry, i thought it was like a simey comment......
>
>*shrugs* i wear raincoats :) i'm quite self conscious and have a lot
>of stupid tattoos i got on me when i was in a *cough-wild-cough* period
>of my life, which i hate, and unfortunately they draw a lot of attention,
>especially from the sort of people who lick their finger and wipe it on
>you and say "is it real???" and expect you not to want to headbutt them....
>*grunt*

No probs Cookie.

I've got some of those tatts too. :)

Cookie
30/10/2008
10:23:00 AM

>
>No probs Cookie.
>
>I've got some of those tatts too. :)

oh, ALL of my tatts i hate :) and unfortunately they are ALL very very visible :(
oh well i'm doing something about it tho.. but it hurts the hip pocket when it costs nearly $6K to get rid of a $70 tattoo that is your smallest one :/

Sabu
30/10/2008
10:27:45 AM
On 30/10/2008 tnd wrote:
>On 29/10/2008 Wendy wrote:
>>
>>Female circumcision is mutilation
>>
>
>As is male circumcision.
There's an argument that when you're old and decrepit its a health advantage but i think
that only counts if you're not getting any....

tnd
30/10/2008
10:31:46 AM
On 30/10/2008 Sabu wrote:
>
>There's an argument that when you're old and decrepit its a health advantage
>but i think


>that only counts if you're not getting any....

I should be ok then...

BigMike
30/10/2008
10:32:46 AM
On 30/10/2008 tnd wrote:
>On 30/10/2008 Sabu wrote:
>>
>>There's an argument that when you're old and decrepit its a health advantage
>>but i think
>
>
>>that only counts if you're not getting any....
>
>I should be ok then...

It's that earring TND...



bluey
30/10/2008
10:33:45 AM
I suggest you all mark this in your diary and get some of that gender angst out of your system! I look forward to seeing Wendy and anthonyk duel it out in the QnA!

Post-edit: oops, just read the copyright bonanza at the end of the link....so here is a somewhat less blatant flouting of their advice:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The City of Melbourne together with the Victorian Government’s Office of Women’s Policy is pleased to invite you and your friends to the latest Melbourne Conversations event. Please feel free to send this invite to your colleagues and friends.

Gender - Does it matter nowadays?

Mid-November 2008 marks a hundred years since women in Victoria gained the right to vote through parliament. To celebrate the centenary you are invited to join a diverse panel as they discuss justice, work, relationships, equality, participation, representation and indeed the contested nature of gender in contemporary society.

Tasneem Chopra - Chairperson Islamic Women's Welfare Council
Dick Gross – Novelist, Lawyer Councillor at City of Port Phillip
Eve Mahlab AO – Convener of the Australian Women Donors Network
Shane Maloney - Novelist
Lyn Morgain - Executive Director of the ALSO Foundation
Dr Clare Wright – Historian and ARC Postdoctoral Fellow, Latrobe University
MC Ramona Koval – ABC Broadcaster, journalist and writer

Date: Monday 10 November 2008
Time: 6.00pm to 7.30pm, Entry from 5.30pm
Venue: BMW Edge, Federation Square, Cnr Flinders and Swanston Streets, Melbourne

FREE ENTRY – GENERAL ADMISSION





BigMike
30/10/2008
10:35:56 AM
On 30/10/2008 Cookie wrote:

>oh, ALL of my tatts i hate :) and unfortunately they are ALL very very
>visible :(
>oh well i'm doing something about it tho.. but it hurts the hip pocket
>when it costs nearly $6K to get rid of a $70 tattoo that is your smallest
>one :/

Have I got a book for you:

No Tattoos Before You're Thirty
Author: de Brito Sam
"It's the stuff I wish somebody, anybody, had told me twenty years ago.'

Course, probably a bit late. And besides, if somebody, anybody, had told de Brito those
things 20 years ago, he'd not have listened.

Cookie
30/10/2008
10:48:05 AM

>
>Have I got a book for you:
>
>No Tattoos Before You're Thirty
>Author: de Brito Sam
>"It's the stuff I wish somebody, anybody, had told me twenty years ago.'
>
>Course, probably a bit late. And besides, if somebody, anybody, had told
>de Brito those
>things 20 years ago, he'd not have listened.


oh goodness me, its a little late for a book like that for me :D however i also share the buyers remorse... but who, when they are 18 (and dating a tattooist) would listen to their parents when they said "you'll regret them" oh no, i wanted to be like that forever :/

if they had told me how sodding painful and expensive laser tattoo removal was, maybe i would have listened.... or probably not :/ hindsight is a real b*tch.

anthonyk
30/10/2008
10:59:10 AM
On 30/10/2008 Sabu wrote:
>On 30/10/2008 tnd wrote:
>>On 29/10/2008 Wendy wrote:
>>>
>>>Female circumcision is mutilation
>>>
>>
>>As is male circumcision.
>There's an argument that when you're old and decrepit its a health advantage
>but i think
>that only counts if you're not getting any....

I don't think there's a single "health advantage" to circumcision you cannot achieve by using soap.

BigMike
30/10/2008
11:05:40 AM
On 30/10/2008 anthonyk wrote:

>
>I don't think there's a single "health advantage" to circumcision you
>cannot achieve by using soap.
>


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8473838/


anthonyk
30/10/2008
11:10:10 AM
On 30/10/2008 BigMike wrote:
>On 30/10/2008 anthonyk wrote:
>
>>
>>I don't think there's a single "health advantage" to circumcision you
>>cannot achieve by using soap.
>>
>
>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8473838/

oh ok, i was thinking of the arguments they use about circumcision reducing risk of bacteria infections etc, they don't usually use the AIDs argument when trying to sell it to western audiences. even still, body altering surgery vs condoms and soap.. pretty hard to justify i think


IdratherbeclimbingM9
30/10/2008
11:11:50 AM
Final words in that link BM.
>Previous studies have linked circumcision with increased HIV infection.

A bet each way re your point?

Sabu
30/10/2008
11:15:54 AM
On 30/10/2008 anthonyk wrote:
>I don't think there's a single "health advantage" to circumcision you
>cannot achieve by using soap.
>
>oh ok, i was thinking of the arguments they use about circumcision reducing
>risk of bacteria infections etc, they don't usually use the AIDs argument
>when trying to sell it to western audiences. even still, body altering
>surgery vs condoms and soap.. pretty hard to justify i think
Yea thats where i was heading, and you are right except for the fact that old people get
lazy!!

Interesting link about the AIDS risk though.

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There are 285 messages in this topic.

 

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