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Ethics and Arrogance


JamesMc

9-Aug-2008
8:44:03 PM

Having thougth a bit more about the orginal post. The object of the spray apperars to have done some damage to a crag by pulling a hold off. That's not good, but I must confess to having done that myself. (In fact I once pulled so many holds off the start of a new route in the Vic Ra that I couldn't get off the ground.)

The object of the spray has redeemed him/her self by repairing the damage by gluing the hold back on, and should be commended.

JamesMc


namesake

10-Aug-2008
11:28:01 AM

Have you ever wondered if the point of these forums is to discuss issues or is it to identify people for who they are, where they are from, how hard they climb, and judge them on whether they are big enough, or man enough to have the status to make comment? It is easy to look back at any topical forum and see it degenerate into a bitchy name slinging fest. Lets just consider for a second, did the author deliberately leave out the name of the glueing climber? Perhaps also to respect not pointing fingers, but to raise issues, ask people to think before they act without consideration.


muki

10-Aug-2008
6:23:15 PM

Most of the bitching is about anonymous trolls who just stir shit and sling names.
(yes, you know who you are)
the many points of these forums are to discuss, enquire, educate, inform, sell, buy, etc.
the many times I can think of where a discussion has degenerated into argument is due to inability to
see or understand another's point of view, I respect you for not naming names.
But you lose creditability for not giving your own.
I can see all three sides to this picture.

The land owner who is probably in the dark to all the breaking and glueing saga,
or why a pile of boulders is so important in the first place!

The mystery glue man, who is probably stoked to see the problem back together again.

And last but not least, your personal outrage at the artificial solution to the broken hold.

Storm in a tea cup would be my own take on the situation.
But it's up to you, as I said to lead by example, and coming out of the closet and telling us all
(we who have let you know who we are)
who you are! will automatically give you more credit! and will truly author your OP instead of it being
just another anonymous rant in the dark.


Zebedee

10-Aug-2008
11:01:00 PM

"JUST ANOTHER ANONYMOUS RANT IN THE DARK"
On 10/08/2008 bomber pro wrote:
> I respect you for not naming
>names.
>But you lose creditability for not giving your own.
>But it's up to you, as I said to lead by example, and coming out of the
>closet and telling us all
>(we who have let you know who we are)
>who you are! will automatically give you more credit! and will truly author
>your OP instead of it being
>just another anonymous rant in the dark.

This bullshit about having to be identifiable for your opinion to count has got to stop. Surely it is the amount of coherence and logic that makes an argued position convincing. Once it comes down to who you are then us peasants have nothing to say worth listening to and the rock Gods can set the standard.
Gluing back rocks or enhancing a stance is unethical the climb should be left as natural as possible. Trundling the loose s*h*i*t would be less intrusive environmentally.


mousey

11-Aug-2008
12:49:54 AM

That's not what it comes down to in my opinion, it's more to do with being accountable for your posts & having the balls to put your name to your opinion. It's hard to take someone seriously when they won't even post their name.

Actually I just realised that my name isnt on my profile haha but f- it most people know who i am on here, I just deleted my name stop the google-bots going to chockstone when people look me up!


Eduardo Slabofvic

11-Aug-2008
8:59:33 AM

I don't know who you are; therefor everything you say is irrelevant.


Zebedee

11-Aug-2008
11:11:36 PM

On 11/08/2008 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>I don't know who you are; therefore everything you say is irrelevant.
I know who you are; therefore everything you say is irrelevant.

hero

12-Aug-2008
12:24:37 PM

If you know who I are, everything I say is irreverent.


Richard

12-Aug-2008
1:15:52 PM

> it's more to do with being
>accountable for your posts & having the balls to put your name to your
>opinion. It's hard to take someone seriously when they won't even post
>their name.

Yes. Namesake wants, the glue-er to be accountable for their actions, but yet doesn't want to be accountable for his own. Sounds like the guy was just returning the climb to it's intended status.


Capt_Mulch

12-Aug-2008
1:43:09 PM

Why would I consider anything that hardmanbutpatheticallyinsecure88 says relevant? If you can't be accountable for your posts (and god knows I have to be for mine, especially the pissed and stoned ones), why should they be taken seriously? The success of this forum comes from deep roots such as The Well, one of the original online forums, where the emphasis was on Community. Peace, Love and Trust brothers and sisters.


Eduardo Slabofvic

12-Aug-2008
2:13:14 PM

Hippy


Capt_Mulch

12-Aug-2008
2:17:24 PM

Kali damn, I've been outed (must be all that time I did in Nimbin in the 80's - not that I remember much of it - but the reoccurring itch in my groin reassures me that I was there...)


Hatman

12-Aug-2008
4:52:19 PM

just to complicate the matter, i i'm with bomber pro re "storm in a tea cup"

Just another typical wankstone thread that wanders off topic into a whole load of chest beating, ass kissing and disagreements, however the talk about drugs and STD's is refreshing. You all seem not to notice that none of these threads ever seem come to a decent conclusion or change anything.

Please prove my point by making some "intellegent" remarks about this post. OR just shut the hell up, either way I win. (because it is a competition you know)


Capt_mulch

12-Aug-2008
5:27:44 PM

I've come to the conclusion that I've changed something. BTW, I couldn't find a website at wankstone.org, so it's up for grabs! (That is, unless one of those URL grabbing b*stard DNS robots just grabbed it becuase I went looking for it...).


wallwombat

12-Aug-2008
5:32:21 PM

What is this thread about?

I've read it a couple of times and I'm still not sure.


Hatman

12-Aug-2008
7:13:24 PM

tell you the truth Adam I didn't read the thread, wot I said goes for most of the threads. Good work mulchie he he, hows about we grab wankstone.com/org and rain poo on the chockstoners!


nikolisper

13-Aug-2008
5:55:50 PM

1) When someone calls crime stoppers he/she could be reporting a potentially much more serious crime than glueing in a piece of rock, yet he/she does not need to provide their details.
2) The person that started this thread did not name anyone and I suspect that it is not easy for someone to identify who the thread is refering to.
3) Ethics, especially in the manner with which they are discussed here, are purely theoretical and therefore associating names with opinions adds nothing to an argument.

jgoding

14-Aug-2008
8:13:23 AM

Hi All,

OK here is an opportunity for re-gluing a hold off Punks in the Gym if anyone feels like it. I tried it many years ago and put a cam behind a reasonable side pull, fell above it, ripped the cam(or more accurately the rock around the cam), took a reasonably exiting swing/fall onto a bolt below and left of the placement as the flake was mostly detached (not that you could tell that from looking at it - these days I tap the rock around placements to see if the rock is hollow. Wish I had of done that many years ago). There is a black rock scar about 8-10m off the ground which can be repaired if deemed the right thing to do by the powers that be (whoever you are?).

Anyway - if this is about coming clean and repairing routes then I offer a small part of Punks in the Gym to anyone who wants to glue it back on.

Given the nature of the route before it simply gets put back up perhaps some constructive discussion about if it's a good idea should take place first.


shiltz

14-Aug-2008
1:35:33 PM

A nice little anecdote... Have you kept the piece of rock as a souvenir Joe?
Short of having actually climbed the route I guess there is some kudos in saying that you once got high enough to fall and pop a piece of gear.

Like everyone, I've pulled a few holds off over the years but never considered glueing them back on. I haven't ever managed to do sufficient damage to change the character or grade of a climb. Once or twice I have encountered "floating" holds. Bits of rock that sit neatly in a groove and stay put so long as you pull on them right, but lift out completely if you don't.

By the way, I assume you're not seriously considering this but rather testing the water.

Out of interest, did the breakage make the climb easier or harder? Some climbs (expecially on Central Victorian granite) probably get easier as small flakes are broken, leaving larger edges where they broke off.

jgoding

15-Aug-2008
8:02:15 AM

Hey Shiltz,

this is only about 10m off the deck and is no-where near the crux. I wanted to find out how hard bloody hard was. Surprise surprise it was bloody hard.

I've been thinking that the ugly black scar could be restored to it's former beautiful orange state by way of a little delicate injection glue surgery. As long as it's done carefully the glue should be invisible and simply do it's job.

It's not significantly harder but it was a nice hold.

There are 41 messages in this topic.