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Angel of Pain, Castle Hill
8:02:02 PM

8:36:35 PM
cool pics, thanks for sharing! looks DAMN hard
1:31:32 AM
Well first of all congratulations to Derek, great job. It's nice for me, to hear that someone climbed one of my favourite routes after so many years.

But thats not really the reason I decided to write. Since the last couple of years I've been looking in to the activities of NZ and especially Angel of Pain. And it makes me sad that some of you find it necessary to accuse someone you dont even know, of things none of you have facts about. It's amazing that some of you have the courage and arrogance to openly call me unhonest, a lyar, and of chipping holds, but none of you have the courage to contact me and find out the truth. Oh, and the excuse that you don't know how to contact me is quite week. How about entering "Phonebook Switzerland" into Google and then entering my name. Or even easyer ask Derek for my email.
I give my thanks to cragrat, who can at least put one and one together. "The mantle could have been easily modified if he had wanted to and didn't.". For those of you who know the route, it should be clear, that the bottom part of the route with the pockets is not the problem. I dont spend years looking for special climbing lines to afterwards modify them so they suit me. I wouldn't have had to spend 13 years in "Im Reich des Shogun", I could have just chipped a small hold and get it over with.

I would be lying if I said that I never chipped a hold in my life, but I can't recall any case of trying to make the route esyer, only to make it harder. If you call breaking off the sharp edges of a pocket so they don't slice my fingers "chipping", then yes, I did chipp Angel of pain, but other then that no.

For your history: When I discovered the route, the three finger pocket was a one finger pocket too. What a perfect line! But unfortunately, after a whiles of work on the route, it first broke open to a two finger pocket and then to a three finger pocket. But certainly not to my delight, cause I could do the move with a one finger pocket too.

And another thing to the ethics I had and still have. I do use Sika to glue on a hold that I think might break off, and to answer a coming question, Yes, the holds sometimes do get better then they were before.

It was not my intention to attack anybody in person, but to give you some missing facts. And I am open to any questions you might have.

By the way if you want to see all the Photos I have of Angel of Pain and also others, go to:

Greetings Eric

11:33:51 AM
Bravo Eric.
It's a shame that you felt you had to defend yourself at all.

11:48:41 AM
On 15/11/2007 taliman wrote:
>And it makes me sad that some of you find it necessary to accuse
>someone you dont even know, of things none of you have facts about.

The only person who said this route was (possibly) chipped is Skip Skip, one of NZ's strongest exports,
and someone who was at the forefront of hard NZ route devlopment in the early 90s. He's obviously
invested some serious time into trying this route in the past, so i think he does probabaly does know
something about the climb...

I meerly brought up the question because i was only recently made aware of the drilling/chipping on some
Castle Hill hard routes done in the past.

1:41:11 PM
The real crime was the tights.
2:41:36 PM
Hi Eric

I'm glad you still have those shots - some of mine are getting a bit scratched and dirty...


4:57:53 PM
Just for the record, I would like to clarify my position in case Eric was referring to what I said and was offended. Eric, we all have great respect for you over here and your routes have legendary status. I did not mean to accuse you of chipping AOP but I thought that in its present state (I was last on it five years ago) it is definitely not natural. Yes, there is some “comfortising” but also the interiors of the pockets are slightly sandy and lots of brushing could alter them over time. In my experience, the natural pockets at Castle Hill do not have sandy interiors.

I am going to stick my neck out, however, and make some theoretical comments about chipping as it refers to what has been said on this post. I disagree with Cragrat that because the top mantle (the “harder” section) was not chipped therefore the bottom is not chipped. Chipping, or comfortising, is not necessarily done to make something easier, merely to connect climbing possibilities in a general sense. It becomes a really grey area trying to define the cut-off point for what “good” or “acceptable” chipping is and what is not. Eric has just said that sharp edges were removed to stop him cutting himself up and I would think that is fine. It gets done all the time when a new route is prepared. “Loose” rock is knocked off; holds are “cleaned” of dirt etc. That’s how the climbing possibility is created and I don’t think it’s much of a jump to alter things a bit more to your liking. Which, let’s be honest, is what the motivation generally is. There are precedents here in Australia that I know and, I am sure, overseas as well. No More Gaps, at Thompsons Point, has a break filled in to force a sequence and the infamous Mechanical Animals, at Boronia Point, also had an unapproved sequence removed! Even if a route is significantly altered it doesn’t necessarily detract from it. The notorious prosthetic hold on Punks in the Gym hasn’t really tarnished the reputation of the climb or people who have climbed it.
8:08:37 PM
Not quite what I was meaning Nic since the usual assumption with chipping is to make it easier and since Eric was getting up the lower wall easily I guess my assumption, since I had spent a fair bit of time with him, was that he had no need to chip to make it easier.

Just wondering why Derek said (Bob Jones) that it wasn't chipped.

PS You need a trip to check out "Little Babylon" at Milford sometime
8:03:33 PM
Derek has posted a couple of Daniels shots on his Flikr here

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There are 30 messages in this topic.


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