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General Climbing Discussion

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Aid Climbing Help

10:32:19 PM
Anything with a value of over $200 will normally be hit up for import duty unless customs miss it.

11:00:10 PM
Well that would mean that customs missed 3 of my past orders! :)

8:56:52 AM
Check out the customs website. I am pretty sure that anything over the equivalent of A$1000 will be taxed import duties BUT anything made in the good ol US of A is tax free because of the free trade agreement. do a google on import duties or similar. the pdf file comes up.
4:26:37 PM
Gravity Hound is correct. $1,000 if shipped, $900 value if bringing with you.

4:47:53 PM
At least there are some advantages to being the 51st state.

10:10:25 AM
Instead of starting a new topic, I though I would just pose these questions on this thread.

So far I have only been up a few solo aid pitches. All single pitch. These questions refer to multi pitch solo.

1) From the standard system, when you reach your belay, you set up your haul system as usual, and rappel down the haul line. This is where I can see myself getting stuck..... How do you free the haulbags without shock loading the anchors (there is noone up top reeling in the slack etc etc)? So far I see two solutions.
a) Either I can set up a mini haul to free them,and slowly lower the bags out until the haul line is taught. But what rope would I use to haul + lower out? Carry a separate small length of static?
b) Carry another rappel line. So.. one dynamic lead line, a haul line, and a completely seperate rappel line. That way I can set up my haul, tension the bags enough to free them, rappel down a seperate line, free and lower out the bags, then procede to clean.
Any other possibilities? Or are the above two ok?

2) When setting up a single pitch anchor for solo it seems simple enough (but please please correct me if I am doing it wrong). I set up a normal belay anchor but for upward pull. This means upside down pieces. To prevent walking and any nuts actually falling out, I keep the anchor under tension by clove hitching the lead line to the the first piece of pro. This piece is extended with a short nylon sling so that it remains taught while tensioning the anchor, but will not take the force of any upward pull caused by a fall.
Providing I am doing it right so far, how would I go about constructing an anchor on a multipitch? Obviously the first pitch is rigged for only upward pull, but what about after that? How do I rig an anchor for the normal fall situation where it encounters upward pull, but also for a last-line of defence in case the protection zippers and I fall directly onto the belay?
Any tricks? Or am I just going to have to get used to making up separate systems and lashing them together... I don't much like the idea of using 6+ pieces in a belay system. Aid is crowded enough already.

10:17:41 AM
>How do you free the haulbags without shock loading the anchors (there is noone up top reeling in the slack etc etc)? So far I see two solutions.

If you donít have an outrageous load you can usually struggle it off with brute force and lower out by hand.
You only need to lower out with a separate line if the pitch above-belay is off to the side. A short lanyard often suffices and can be left permanently attached to the bag like its own 'cowstail'; or use excess rope left over if the above pitch is not a full length one; or a zip line if it is and the pitch traverses somewhat.

>mini haul

Only necessary for super heavy loads.
Even then a fine tuned system is a prerequisite, and this is best practised beforehand in a controlled environment.
It is no good being on the wall and finding your setup thwarted for example by the length of the straps on the haulbag minimising the effectiveness of getting the load off the anchor (due out of reach) etc.

>Carry another rappel line / other possibilities?

It is usual to back-clean on the initial abseil, though others prefer to clean while jugging back up. A second rope is only necessary if the pitch is excessively overhung as otherwise you have to resort to down-aiding, eg reversing roof moves to clean pieces.

There are many variations on the theme, eg I have abseiled on my 7 mm zip-line Ö; it largely depends on what the route dictates at the time, combined with available gear and knowledge of using it or improvising ~> whatever proves most efficient.

You can rig fancy self retrieving systems with haulbags left on a fifi hook at the previous belay and your body acts as counterweight to simultaneously haul bags up while you abseil down.
Tricky business extricating or salvaging the situation if anything goes wrong Ö
... Again best learnt in a controlled environment.

~> easier to go 'minimal' ...

>anchor on a multipitch?

It has to be multidirectional bombproof ~ period.

10:34:55 AM
>Instead of starting a new topic, I though I would just pose these questions on this thread.

Good idea.

~ ~ ~

~> Copy of a PM'd 'question and answer added to the thread for information, in case others have a similar question.

Subject: Re: Just a question
On 12/11/2007 ... wrote:
>Just thought I would ask this question.. I am planning on knocking off
>some aid this christmas, at the moment my experience is limited to a few
>easy cracks using tied slings for aiders.
>Now I was going to get some proper aid gear: Ascenders, aiders, daisies,
>some hooks, and a comfy harness. Most of the climbs I have my eyes on have
>roof sections, so I decided to go with the ladder style (Yates) Aiders.
>How many would I want? Four? Or Two? I have heard differing opinions on
>it, but from my own experience, using only two was a little uncomfortable.

Date: 12/11/2007 4:49:19 PM

G'day ...

You can get by with 2 (as you have found out), 'cos you only have two feet ...
but imo there are other considerations ...

Decide how big the roof/s are. The more roofing you do (or the bigger the roof involved), the more you will want four aiders, ie two sets of two. This is because while on any given piece you can stand with both feet in aiders, and this helps take weight off your arms. Important to have matching step lengths so you are not loading up unevenly ... ~> helps keeping balance without flaming out ...
A Chest harness is good. Run a long fifi sling off your harness up through the chest harness to clip gear and you can stand upright unsupported by your arms, which is good for selecting gear/making next placement.
Alternatively you can lie back and clip in short with a different shorter fifi but use the chest harness clipped to your waist band to help take weight off your arms.
(This is why I have more than one fifi as you may have noted from other thread/posts ...)

You may be able to get both feet into the one rung of ladder style etts.
If you can then two will suffice for the above technique; ... if you can't however, then 3 etts are nice for flexibilitiy in that situation, as you can have two in use and keep leapfrogging the last to the front of the queue (next placement).


1:35:07 PM
Thankyou for the response!

Just a question about your anchors. What would be a common setup for you when you solo aid?

Would you be rigging an anchor for upward pull, then an entirely different setup as your last line of defence for downward pull? Or would you be using fancy multidirectional, like nuts in horizontal opposition and trying to make the belay primarily out of SLCD's (kindof multidirectional).

Also, would you attempt to keep your downward pull protection under tension? Or just rig it with as much dynamic forgiveness as possible and let it hang slack?

6:41:09 PM
I have written a complete article in the wikipedia on "" check it out.

As for an answer to some of your questions about the most common scenario, here goes...

I create an upward pulling anchor of the deck, the haul bag is the dynamic devise, it has to be pulled
up as I weight the rope in a fall, along with this are screamers (or scream aids) if you feel the need,
personaly I prefer a reusable devise such as the petzle via ferata shock absorbers, these use a small
amount of dynamic rope that gets pulled through a small figure 8 thing forget what it's called,(Zypher?)

Now when at the top set a standard anchor, fix the lead rope to it then rap down the lead rope cleaning
the pitch, clean the bottom anchor, then jumar up and haul, you can have a seperate haul line for the
pig as well if you want, just tie the pig in with some of the rope left over to lower it out with, I use a
belay devise to do this so its nice and slow and does'nt get up a pendulum swing.

once back up and finished hauling, set the anchor for multi directional loading, cams are the most
versitile at this job but every anchor will be different! get creative, then load the pig into the setup so it
pulls down on the downward pulling gear and will be stopped from upward travell (after moving up to
absorb some force) by the upward pulling gear in the anchor.

IMO if you are completely failing your upward pull anchor you should take up another hoby!
My upward pulling anchor is usually a mix of totaly upward and multi directional gear, eg one bomproof
nut/hex (up) and two good cams (multi, up/down)

Read the entry I've made on the wikipedia for the full rundown on the system that I use, good luck BP

9:25:27 PM
(of an interesting thread to some...)

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