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best climber?????


meinmuk

19-Oct-2007
12:49:20 PM

On 18/10/2007 nmonteith wrote:
>Sharma can consistently onsight 29+ so i think he's godo that angle covered.
>He tends to focus on
>bouldering or bouldery style climbing...

.......Yeah, but what's he done on grit? ;-)


muki

19-Oct-2007
2:22:57 PM

The best climber?????, what sort of question is that anyway? it's like saying who is the best
sportsperson, or who is the best human being! much too broad a question with no defineing parameters.
Climbing has so many sub groups and individual disciplines, that it is impossible to get an answer to that
type of sweeping question, another thing that makes it impossible to answer is you have not said when!
The individuals that stand out as bieng the best at any particular discipline of our vertical game are
constantly being replaced by those that set current standard as"best" and so our standards are
continually being re-invented, it's like the 5-10 glass ceiling that was eventually brocken by the first 5-11a

rod

19-Oct-2007
9:52:54 PM

CS is still only 26, I think we're yet to see what he can do in other climbing domains outside competition, sport, bouldering and DWS. However, he's certainly set a new standard in DWS with the arch: every fall means a complete restart and falls hurt more the higher you go. Bagging that one in 100 tries would have involved some pretty big hits to the body so he deserves kudos for the send. As for the form of kudos itself: that's down to others.

From what I've seen, CS seems to climb with the 6/7s mentality, you get the feeling he still enjoys it as much as the rest of us mortals and that's the greatest thing.


Macciza

20-Oct-2007
8:28:32 AM

The 'Best Climber' . . . is the one having the most fun . .! WG
But it does not have to be fun to be fun - so it's a hard one to work out.
I'm climbing pretty well - when I manage to get out that is . . .
IMHO Garth would be the best Aussie climber


Macciza

20-Oct-2007
8:37:55 AM

And re the Jugging Comp - it should be expanded.
1. Prussics only - byo
2. Standard Setup - supplied
3. Personal setup - byo

Individual event and overall prizes naturally

PS And an Aid comp would be really cool too . . .


gordoste

20-Oct-2007
3:12:28 PM

well it really just depends on how you define best... is it purely physical or a mental aspect as well? do you get bonus points for being a good ice climber or mountaineer? do you get bonus points for soloing or onsights? do you get penalised for controversial actions?

IMHO there are 3 that stand out as the best all-around climbers at the moment, Alex Huber, Dean Potter and Dave MacLeod.

They've all done really hard climbing and pushed the boundaries in at least one aspect of the sport. AFAIK Dave MacLeod hasn't done any mountaineering outside of the UK but he has probably bouldered harder than the other too and he is probably also a better ice climber.

So those 3 would be the top of my all-round list.

For individual subgenres of rock climbing (not ice or mountaineering) I'd say:
Trad: Sonnie Trotter and Dave MacLeod
Sport: Chris Sharma, but Dani Andrada and Steve McClure come close
Boulder: Dave Graham, Chris Sharma, Daniel Woods, Dai Koyamada, Chris Webb (late addition)
Solo: the late Michael Reardon, Dean Potter

This is not to ignore the hundreds/thousands of folks who put in big efforts to prepare and make first ascents, write guidebooks etc. or the uncountable weekend climbers (like myself) who just love the sport. But I am trying to answer in the spirit of the question.

There are also a few up-and-coming young climbers like David Lama and Sean McColl who will probably kick the sport up another notch (although they need to climb more trad ;)


shamus

20-Oct-2007
10:11:45 PM

>This is not to ignore the hundreds/thousands of folks who put in big efforts
>to prepare and make first ascents, write guidebooks etc. or the uncountable
>weekend climbers (like myself) who just love the sport.

Perhaps getting off the line of the question, but led me to think: those people who train, guide and educate other climbers so they can become new (or improved) participants in this sport are also fantastic climbers in their own way. They have the knowledge, and they share it, helping others to climb safely and at higher levels that they may have otherwise. They are just as important for the development and continuation of the game as people who put up routes or those that climb ridiculously hard. I'll never meet any of those big names people have mentioned, but the climbers I have the most respect for are those that I have had the opportunity to learn off.


seppo

21-Oct-2007
11:02:15 AM

well you can't just use the arch. sure it runs at 5.15a (dont know what the f--- it is in australian like 36 or something stupid) AND its deep water solo. theres something to be said for that. "working it" is pretty hard when you spill 15 meters into water every time. but in addition to that he also did realization ANOTHER 5.15a, which was sport. on top of that SHITLOADS of insane 5.14's, including three degrees of separation. but he's also a trad gun as well, go watch king lines and you'll see it. i doubt its out down under but when it does see it. you'll know that sharma is the best. and he is a damn all around climber


tmarsh

21-Oct-2007
5:56:58 PM

On 21/10/2007 seppo wrote:
>i doubt its out down under but when it does see it. you'll know that sharma
>is the best. and he is a damn all around climber

Of course Sharma is the best. He's American after all.

DJ Biggs

21-Oct-2007
11:48:27 PM

The best climber is the one who makes the most noise while still managing to hold on.... so yeah,
sharma must be the best.

surfinclimb

22-Oct-2007
11:05:35 PM

Sort of the same . I was running a surf lesson the other day and this kid asked me if i was a pro surfer? The reply was simple, "I surf for my own enjoyment not other peoples entertainment".
I dont really think Chris Sharma gives a shit who the best climber in the world is, hes too busy having fun.


cruze

23-Oct-2007
8:52:37 AM

I reckon most professional climbers would be accutely aware of who the public regards as the best. Sponsors sponsor the climbers the public wants to watch - which is probably the best. Sponsorship pays the bills.

surfinclimb

23-Oct-2007
9:13:31 AM

I believe the difference in sponsorship is not that vast between # 1 and no # 10. I dont have much knowledge on spono deals in the climbing world but in pro surfing with the exception of one Mr K. slater Theres not much money seperating the top 20. Slater is the exception and as much as i hate to admit that a "septic" is by far the best surfer in the world he does have 7 WORLD TITLES to his name. The man can and does consistently beat everyone in all conditions from Huntington to Tahiti and Waimea Bay.
Id hope that the best climbers in the world are not so vain as to worry about who amongst them is the best, but realise that they are making a living out of what they love doing while the rest of us mere mortals just shake our head in wonder at what they can achieve.
As pathetic and egotistical as it sounds the only true way to find out "The best" is to run worldwide climbing comps including all disciplines of the game and see who comes out on top.
Then Just wait for climbing to be taken over by big buisness and media and 100,000 people every weekend fighting it out for the best climb of the day. Sort of like what happened to the surfing scene. Youll love it when petzl start selling shirts that used to cost $20 for $79.95 and some kid thats never climbed is trying to sell you stuff that his never used and doesnt really know how it works ( the laters already here) But yeah its great for the "Sport"


cruze

23-Oct-2007
9:26:22 AM

On 23/10/2007 surfinclimb wrote:
>I believe the difference in sponsorship is not that vast between # 1 and
>no # 10.

Fair point. I really wouldn't know how much money separates the top 10 say climbers worldwide. I don't know if it is just growing up in Australia that makes me think this but I would have thought that pro surfing is more lucrative than pro climbing? I just don't see many 14 year olds wearing BD/five-ten T-shirts. Unlike say Quicksilver clothing... I think that the market for surfing merchandise (which effectively contributes to sponsorship) extends well beyond the surfing community. Hey I grew up in Canberra, never surfed, yet found myself slavishly following the trend as much as my paper run money would allow...

dalai

23-Oct-2007
9:30:43 AM

You are cynical about the changes to surfing and climbing yet by teaching surfing we have more grommets clogging the finite resource of surf breaks? You are (if getting paid not volunteering) directly benefiting from the popularity of the sport that the media and sponsors give it!

Climbing will never go there, it's tried and failed! Mid 90's, the World Cup comps were huge - new walls each comp (was the requirements that each year the event's had to have a new panel system wall!) and huge prize money. Then after a few short years it quickly declined and the World Champion was chosen not from up to a dozen events but a mere 3 or 4 as that was all the events being run.

The Climbing body has tried for many years to get sport climbing in the Olympics. Even 'sports' such as bmx and syncronised swimming got ahead, as competition climbing as a spectator sport is boring. Climbers moving in precise movements in total control and then falls off. Unless you are a climber and have an appreciation of how hard it is it. For example the recent footage of Webb on Wheel of Life, he makes it all look so easy. I have had a play in the cave and struggled badly on the few easier bits, it's hard and he walks it...


Paulie

23-Oct-2007
2:23:16 PM

On 18/10/2007 rhyso wrote:
>I was reading a while back that after 100 plus goes, sharma sent his huge,
>eff-off hard arch project.
>alot of the climbing fraternity then stated that he is the best climber
>in the world for he climbed the hardest route in the world.......
>what do you think, does scaling the hardest route after 100 plus goes
>make you the best, or is he just hell persistent and only conquered it
>through that persistence?

He's a really, really, really good climber but really, who cares if he's the 'best' in the world, it's competely irrelevant.

surfinclimb

23-Oct-2007
4:34:19 PM

You may call it cynical, I call it wary. I do get paid to teach people to surf but I think that we need to seperate surfing from commercial profit here. I love surfing, always have, always will and I love watching people catch that very first wave when they get to their feet and ride the whitewash into the beach, That is what puts a smile to my face the pure joy of surfing because it feels good.
Unfortunately I have an increasing family and some pesky bills to pay so I charge a lot of people to learn how to surf, I also teach a lot of kids how to surf for free because I know how much surfing will benifit them.
Theres also the fact that someone many years ago introduced me to surfing and just because I have found something that I enjoy doing doesnt mean no one else is allowed to start surfing now. (sort of like finding somewhere nice to live in the country and telling everyone else to piss off they cant come, this is my paradise)
Which brings me back to the commercial exploitation side of things. Yes Quiksilver etc should be allowed to make a profit out of surfing I just resent the fact that my scene (culture) has been merccilessly exploited by the massive corporations for profit, really $70 for a pair of shorts $80 for a shirt $100 for a jumper just because it has a Billabong label on it? Sposorship driven no dought but does Taj Burrow really need 6 mill over 10 years to survive plus all the added perks of being a pro surfer like being paid to do a Mentawai boat trip for 10 days?
Anyway its a tough one, where do you say "yes you can make money out of this" and "no you cant". Also no doubtly im gunna get slayed by everyone for my thoughts. My veiws are fairly complex and im not real good at typing with anything more than 2 fingers so ill try and leave it at that, besides i just looked out the window and I know a nice little wave that should be good very soon.
catch ya.


cruze

23-Oct-2007
4:58:52 PM

Or Tiger Woods 5 or 10 years ago getting $187 million over three years from Nike. Around the time that sweat shops all through Asia were getting exposed...

I reckon it sucks too. Australian society, and capitalism really, has led to a tiny proportion of the population getting paid ridiculous amounts of money. Look at the Nurses currently striking, and teachers getting paid diddly squat. We all know it. I remember reading an article (SMH) on the former boss of some bank (sorry about the lack of details) leaving on a $20 million payout which attracted lots of criticism. The late Kerry Packer said to him to tell the critics to essentially F*** off, cause he had made the company $200 + million. That statement just shows how stuffed up the big end of town is.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Anyway what were we talking about again? Sharma? Yeah I want to have his babies too. Where do I get my ticket for the queue?

surfinclimb

23-Oct-2007
5:41:17 PM

I must apologise to all. I have just noticed that I have hijacked this thread with a non related topic.


six-sevens

24-Oct-2007
8:01:12 AM

Back on topic, What about a sort of points system, points for,
How often they climb (any style)
How passionate they are about climbing
How much enjoyment / satisfaction they get
Their attitude
How much they push their own limits
and double points for how much their climbing influences and motivates others to do these things themselves.
A positive happy person will become successful at anything they attempt.
It may well be that Sharma is the best!
But you don't have to climb V16 to be an inspiration.

There are 41 messages in this topic.