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Dealing with shit

climberman

16-Aug-2007
8:23:29 PM

On 15/08/2007 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>On 15/08/2007 climberman wrote:
>>These guys: http://www.biolytix.com/index.php reportedly do well with
>high
>>temp variance, high use variance systems.
>
>At the risk of spamming, these systems rock. I would have bought one
>if they were available when I did
>my place.
>

Good to hear, I may be involved in some of these soon. It's always hard to know if the PR can walk the walk.


Chuck Norris

16-Aug-2007
9:07:10 PM

I can confirm that eduardos 'toilet' doesn't stink.....as for the smell of his shit - i figure it stinks as bad/
good as the rest of ours'

But i do have a question - can i ask how feasible it is to live off only rainwater in the nati region? ( please
don't assume i am ignorant of the recent droughts)

Also are there any words of wisdom from people that have tried to 'environmentally' set up shop in that
area? And also are there any ideas for a better way forward?


Eduardo Slabofvic

16-Aug-2007
9:40:08 PM

On 16/08/2007 stugang wrote:
>But i do have a question - can i ask how feasible it is to live off only
>rainwater in the nati region? Also are there any words of wisdom from people that have tried to
'environmentally' set up shop in that
>area? And also are there any ideas for a better way forward?

Well........I've used 0 town water since January this year, and so far today have caught 600 litres of water.

Last year the rainfall for the year was 210mm. This gave me 21000 litres. That's about 57.5 litres per day
for two people plus guests, but there is a time factor to consider, as rain comes in specific events, and
you need to consider that there is the potential for there to be 3 to 4 months of no rainfall, therefore you
need to catch enough rain during the rainy period to last. Last year was too dry for me with my 100sqm
catchment and I had to use town water for a while (yetch!). This taught me to increase my catchment in
order to “drought proof” my place.

I intend to increase my catchment to 250sqm and my storage capacity to 80 000.litres. So in a dry year
(200mm/pa) I’ll yield 50 000 litres, which will mostly arrive from June to October, and hope to have some
carry over from one year to the next that can allow for watering fruit trees and vege garden.

The average (which is a pretty pointless measure) is in the range of 400mm to 450mm. I would be very
able to get by in an average year, the question is how do I get by in a low rainfall year whilst not over
investing in catchment and storage infrastructure. It is definitely possible, but how much does it cost and
what’s the pay back time (don’t get me started on pricing policy and the micro-economics of
sustainability). Also what’s my motivation, and it’s not saving money, as doing this costs $$$$$ that I
wont see back until pricing policy changes……must stay calm….must…..

I know two houses near Nati that are not grid connected for power, so that is possible as well.

As far as providing food, that’s really hard due to rainfall and soil characteristics. It’s great if you want to
grow wheat/lentils/etc, but I like to have a wider diet than that. You need water to grow fruit and veg (see
above).

Then there’s clothing, shelter, health care (type in “Hierarchy of needs” into Google and see what you get)
…….blah blah blah……

Will P

16-Aug-2007
9:51:31 PM

and so far today have caught 600 litres of water.

Wow, heavy rain today. Seriously though, just out of interest, with 100sqm of catchment, does 1mm of rain catch 100L of water? Also, what is your catchment area? I assume it's not just the roof of the house (naive city-dweller here), and how do you increase it? Thanks Ed.

>>

TLockwood

16-Aug-2007
10:29:11 PM

My parents in nati have two reasonably large tanks which they feed off half the house and they can switch between using it and the town water, im sure Ed has a similar switch. although they arent totally reliant on it, it does help reduce water bills a little. The tanks feed drinking water all the time and only feed the hot water system (showers, laundry, etc) when the tanks have a bit of water in them. I must say congrats to Ed for being this enviro friendly, im sure his ecological footprint must be reasonable small.. have u ever completed one Ed?


M10iswhereitsat.

16-Aug-2007
10:31:09 PM

LISTEN, LOCKO !!!

WE'RE TLKN ABOUT THE TOTE OR TARTS TONIGHT !!!

NOW GET WITH THE PROGRAM !!!!

DO U WANNA CLIMB THE TOTE TOO ???


Chuck Norris

16-Aug-2007
11:01:41 PM

On 16/08/2007 TLockwood wrote:
I must say congrats to Ed for
>being this enviro friendly, im sure his ecological footprint must be reasonable
>small.. have u ever completed one Ed?

as long as he factors in the 100 liters of water it takes to brew a single pint of the finest ale in the land...

Seriously - Tim - Ed - do most houses in Nati run off the local sewerage? or is eduardo a lone crusader?

TLockwood

16-Aug-2007
11:13:57 PM

As far as i know he's the only one in nati using a 'toilet' as is his, happy to be put wrong tho! this thread has really opened my eyes to the possibilies of reducing water consumption, albeit possibly quite expensive

On 16/08/2007 stugang wrote:

>as long as he factors in the 100 liters of water it takes to brew a single
>pint of the finest ale in the land...

well its his water, :P he isnt wasting public water i guess


Chuck Norris

16-Aug-2007
11:28:33 PM

Tim - are you saying that most of the town is connected to the central sewerage?

PS this is a great thread...and i'm gonna repeat an artaud quote the first two lines of which i made
earlier...

The Pursuit of Fecality

There where it smells of shit
it smells of being.
Man could just as well not have shat,
not have opened the anal pouch,
but he chose to shit
as he would have chosen to live
instead of consenting to live dead.

Because in order not to make caca,
he would have had to consent
not to be,
but he could not make up his mind to lose
being,
that is, to die alive.


Eduardo Slabofvic

17-Aug-2007
9:57:38 AM

Nati doesn't have a sewage system, it has a sullage system. The key difference is every house has a
septic tank and the over flow from this goes to they sullage system, which then goes to an evaporation
pan.

The reason why this was put in pace was because the overflow from septics adjacent the creek was
flowing into the creek and creating problems, so the sullage system was seen as a cheap way of solving
the problem.

I built my house only about 6 or 7 years ago, long after they system was built, and am fortunate enough to
not have it run past my place. If it did, then I would have been forced to connect to it (via the occupancy
permit) and then all my waste water would go to an evaporation pan, instead of water my garden, thus
further reducing my demand. This is what I mean by the micro-economics of sustainability.

I know another house in town that wanted to put in the Biolitics system (mentioned in another post above),
but Council would not let them re-use the treated water on their site, it had to go into the sullage system,
and out to the evaporation pan, that is a clear waste of water, and makes a mockery of any advertising
campaign aimed at conserving water.

As it is, the only water to go down my toilet is to wash the skid marks off (the design of the pedestal
keeps this to a minimum), so that reduces my demand by approximately 30% (according to the literature
30% of domestic water use is flushing the toilet), and the rest of my waste water (shower, kitchen, laundry
etc) goes to a 3 stage treatment system which produces class A water, which is then pumped to the
orchard.

I monitor the waste water for it’s salt content (sodium, phosphorous, potassium), sodium is bad,
phosphorous is bad if it’s going to run into a waterway otherwise it’s good, potassium is good. The water
that comes out of my house contains what ever it is that I put into it, so I always buy vegetable oil based
soaps etc.

The reason why I’m going so hard on the tanks and catchment is not to save money, as I recognise that I
am spending way more than I’ll save under current pricing mechanisms (again, another micro-economic
disincentive to conserve water), as even though I’m not using town water, town water is available to me
so I pay $200 a year service fee on top of buying and maintaining my own infrastructure. Another reason
is that Nati Town water is very salty to begin with (and very smelly). I have measure the salt content of
the town water numerous time and it fluctuates between 1100 EC and 1300 EC (although it should be
noted that the meter I use only goes up to 1300). In simple terms, I killed my walnut tree by watering it
with town water, as the walnut is susceptible to salt load about 1100EC.

This is very salty, way above any standard, and when this is combined with the water being untreated
means town water is unfit to drink (there is a stamp on our water bills saying its non-potable).


Eduardo Slabofvic

17-Aug-2007
9:59:35 AM

On 16/08/2007 TLockwood wrote:
>As far as i know he's the only one in nati using a 'toilet' as is his,
>happy to be put wrong tho!

There are three exactly same as mine in Nati, and another composing toilet (different brand) just out of
Nati, that I know of.

kiwijc

17-Aug-2007
11:49:27 AM

On 16/08/2007 MrKyle wrote:

>
>What about if we made some simple "pack-out" kits, that were subsidised
>by the government/councils and/or sponsored by outdoor retailers? It's
>possible we could make them free of charge so that every climber has one
>on hand. ??
>

An excellent idea that would help the problem in all areas, and not just the Glen. A while ago I tried out a specific system that Ado got from the army. It contained some chemicals that got rid of the pathogens in the poo and made it OK to dump the plastic bag in your local rubbish bin. In principle I don't like the idea of using more plastic bags and putting your poo to landfill. Is there an alternative, such as providing a kit that involves compostable bags, and having a special bin to deposit the bags around the carpark area, and then disposing of these in an appropriate manner?

What should be in these pack-out kits, and what enviro-friendly options exist for dealing with the resulting product?


Eduardo Slabofvic

17-Aug-2007
11:55:53 AM

I've come across some disposable/compostable plates made from sugar cane mulch. They are quite rigid
and sturdy. This could be used for the outer casing so as not to have it break/crumple inside your pack.
The inside could be something to absorb any liquid and assist with pathogen destruction. Then the whole
thing could be put in a composting facility. No plastic and plenty of carbon to bond with the nitrogen.

kiwijc

17-Aug-2007
12:13:27 PM

On 17/08/2007 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>I've come across some disposable/compostable plates made from sugar cane
>mulch. They are quite rigid
>and sturdy. This could be used for the outer casing so as not to have
>it break/crumple inside your pack.
>The inside could be something to absorb any liquid and assist with pathogen
>destruction. Then the whole
>thing could be put in a composting facility. No plastic and plenty of
>carbon to bond with the nitrogen.

For something compostable to be disposed of it may be easier to get people in the habbit of taking a poo tube to the crag. I made one for under $10 with PVC piping from the local hardware store. You could then put a compostable bag inside this (usually inside a plastic bag as well), and then carry your shit out and dispose of the compostable bag in a bin provided. This may be cheaper & simpler than trying to provide everyone with these sugar cane mulch containers??

Soren, what is the council's view on the concepts described above? What sort of opposition / objections / support could we expect from council.

Is the idea of having a composting facility around the carpark area feasible? Or would we need to have a bin provided at the carpark, and then transport the bags to the composting facility?


Eduardo Slabofvic

17-Aug-2007
1:02:28 PM

On 17/08/2007 kiwijc wrote:
>For something compostable to be disposed of it may be easier to get people
>in the habbit of taking a poo tube to the crag. I made one for under $10
>with PVC piping from the local hardware store. You could then put a compostable
>bag inside this (usually inside a plastic bag as well), and then carry
>your shit out and dispose of the compostable bag in a bin provided. This
>may be cheaper & simpler than trying to provide everyone with these sugar
>cane mulch containers??

Agreed, I was thinking of a business venture that manufactures the disposable containers. We then get
megga rich exporting it all over the world, as it becomes the benchmark for carryin/carry out poo systems.

the PVC can be a bit heavy, not too bad for a day trip to the crag, but a little heafty for 7+ day back
country trip, hence my original post on the lighter option from K-mart (also less than $10).


M10iswhereitsat.

18-Aug-2007
4:53:12 PM

Eddo --- I'm fascinated with the ' evaperation pan ' ...
... can u explain , a bit , how it works / doesn't stink / distance from town / do locals nick a trailer load for the garden ...

Cheers

wyt91t

18-Aug-2007
5:42:44 PM

what a load of shit.

Jimminy clip it !!

18-Aug-2007
9:03:13 PM

Hey Wyt-y

YOU LOOKIN FOR A FIGHT-Y !!!???!!!

Go back to the Bluies !!!

...and say g'day to Bundybear & DOD for me !!!! :D

Ralph

There are 58 messages in this topic.