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General Climbing Discussion

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Eduardo Slabofvic
3:01:00 PM
On 27/07/2007 billk wrote:
>Rule #1 for that sort of campaign is try to avoid looking too much like
>you come from Toorak/ North Shore/ wherever the Briso equivalent is.


3:33:20 PM
On 27/07/2007 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:


Where is Inala in relation to the Gabba?
3:39:02 PM
On 27/07/2007 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>On 27/07/2007 billk wrote:
>>Rule #1 for that sort of campaign is try to avoid looking too much like
>>you come from Toorak/ North Shore/ wherever the Briso equivalent is.

Hahaha, I was going to say Goodna. Inala is an exclusive suburb a little further out from the 'Gabba.

dave h.
4:10:38 PM
Wow I'm sad that I missed the first 150 or so posts of this thread (not because it went downhill but because I found the election talk more interesting than reactions to the Bracks resignation - yes i'm from NSW... but I still think it's sad that he resigned, I was impressed when I heard him speaking about the Murray-Darling earlier this week). Anyway to return to the federal election..

I'm not sure why everyone's been tip-toeing around the metaphorical elephants in the corner...

I mean, the Howard government has, in recent years:
1) Committed Australian troops to what was an __illegal__ war. The USA's attempt at legally justifying the war was utterly pathetic....

2) Kept illegal immigrants in detention centres where their rights under international law are not respected. Many reports chronicled the psychological harm inflicted upon children as a result of their detention, but as I understand it we still lock up children.

We're the only country with mandatory detention of refugees. This violates the spirit of the UN Declaration on Human Rights, & breaches our obligations under the International Covenant of Civil and Political Rights.

3) Didn't oppose, in any way, the actions taken by the USA to subvert the Geneva Conventions. Regardless of what Mamdou Habib or David Hicks were guilty of, it seems apparent that they were both subjected to 'coercive interrogation', and left to rot in Guantanamo Bay for years with no prospect of a trial. And f*****g Phillip Ruddock just blithely asserted that he had full confidence in the actions USA was taking.

Are these issues for anyone else or is it just me...

4:24:05 PM
On 27/07/2007 dave h. wrote:
>Are these issues for anyone else or is it just me...

Yep, i don't think they can do a thing right anymore in the eyes of the public. Johnny should have done a
Bracks and walked away when on top.

4:29:11 PM
p.s. - I'm not responsible fo the latest propaganda campaign!

6:45:13 PM
On 27/07/2007 dave h. wrote:

>Are these issues for anyone else or is it just me...

Hmmm ... Iraq.

I saw a news bulletin on either SBS or ABC last week (no ways it was on a commercial station) about US troops in Iraq, and how stressed they are getting as their ``tours'' are repeatedly extended.

The camera followed them on a raid into a house. Inside was chaos. Barking dogs surrounding an old woman with little more than a chair and a Zimmer frame, who was yelling and wailing in anguish at the troops.

Then outside again, and on deserted shattered streets, the soldiers try to flag down a civilian car that is ``acting suspiciously''. It takes off. They shoot it up. Soldiers approach driver lying in car. ``He moved, he's still alive'' one says. ``Nope, he's shot through the throat,'' another says.

He dies. Nothing suspicious in the car. Later a woman in a nearby house tells the troops the car was an informal taxi she'd ordered. He was trying to find her house in amongst the carnage.

That evening, one US soldier is venting at the camera, saying he's done 15 months but he would gladly, and for free, do another 15 months if George Bush or another senior government figure would come and do it with him.

And what I have to say is going to get censored, but there's no other word for it, the story made me so f---ing angry and depressed. About the intolerable human cost of the Western powers' arrogance and stupidity. Australia has backed the US in this insanity and continues to do so.

But to answer your question. ... it's not an election issue. Not really.

For me, the 2004 election was summed up by a cartoon in the Manly Daily, of all places. Two voters in two polling booths. Over one is a thought cloud with the words: ``Iraq, Free Trade Agreement, Children in detention'' and the like.

Over the other voter's head is a simple symbol: ``%''

The voters will vote according to what's in it for them.

So it's to be hoped that voters will realise how the WorkNoChoices laws will hurt them, and vote the conservatives out. And then perhaps win the additional bonuses of a more compassionate and honest government.

7:18:21 PM
Hear,hear, Mike!

7:22:11 PM
I hear you Mike. Let's go climbing.
Will P
7:25:03 PM
I think most voters will vote according to what they think is in it for them, so it really all depends on who sells their agenda most effectively. Right now, at least in Victoria, the federal coalition aren't doing such a great job of that. Personally, I think coalition policy would provide the most financial benefit for me, but it'll be a cold day in hell before I vote their way, I have this annoying social conscience thing.

dave h.
7:36:16 PM
damn social consciences :P

11:15:42 PM
Mike this is just for you, I agree with your points about America making a royal screw up of everything and this video sums it up nicely.
The scenes with GWB making jokes about not finding the wmd's and the coffins of the soldiers stirred me up a little.

Personally i am still a little more sympathetic to the Aus government, i don't believe their mistakes were as bad as America, in retrospect, it was simply a mistake to trust & follow them (maybe they knew everything was a lie or maybe they were in the dark just as much as we were).
The saddest (and i really want to emphasise this) thing in all of this is the damage that has been done and to pull out now wouldn't solve anything in terms of the country being repaired and perhaps would only cause further damage to iraq through civil war and unrest.

oh yea and goodbye Bracksy, won't miss you and i hope that brumby does a better job!

1:11:54 AM
On 27/07/2007 Sabu wrote:

> to pull out now wouldn't solve anything
>in terms of the country being repaired and perhaps would only cause further
>damage to iraq through civil war and unrest.
you actually believe that line??? Funny stuff. So what you propose is to stay and kill another 500 000 people (conservative estimate).
I bet you believe there's a terrorist threat too.

2:48:50 AM
Have to agree with you there SOTT,
for every Yank coffin how many civilians, men women & children are murdered?
And as for terrorists who do you think is more terrorfied ? Joe Smith from Anytown America,
or the average civilian being bombed, sniped, blown up by suicide bombers,or shot to death by Us troops
who think they look a bit suspicious? I wonder how many US citizens are contemplating going to Iraq for
a nice peacfull holliday before the troops pull out and all that bothersome civil unrest starts up?
Swallowing American Bulls#!t Unquestioningly

10:04:27 AM
On 28/07/2007 bomber pro wrote:
>Swallowing American Bulls#!t Unquestioningly
Thanks for that BP, totally uncalled for and real mature of you...... clearly you didn't watch the video link i posted.

To clarify my position because for some reason it wasn't clear in my first post... No i do not support America or believe what they have said.
I just believe that from here on there is NO solution. pulling out won't solve anything and saying there won't solve anything. Why? because obviously staying will cause deaths by the soldiers and insurgents, leaving will allow any idiot with a gun to run amack in a country that has a very weak infrastructure and multiple religious factions that want power. See my point yet?
11:20:25 AM
>I just believe that from here on there is NO solution. pulling out won't
>solve anything and staying there won't solve anything.

Yeah so I guess we better stay there. Makes sense to me.

btw I'm pretty sure than there are lots of idiots with guns running amok already. But on the upside if the US left that number would reduce by about 100,000 or so.

11:26:21 AM
On 28/07/2007 Sabu wrote:
>On 28/07/2007 bomber pro wrote:

>Thanks for that BP, totally uncalled for and real mature of you......

Well it was a 3am post ... always a dangerous time!

You're right in saying there is no obvious if any solution, Sabu. The strange thing is that the governments who got us into this mess are the ones to argue, "we got us in, so we should get us out", and voters tend to be susceptible to that argument. As if only they know where the reverse gear is.

But what should Joe Public's response be? Imagine if a company you invested in made a disastrous merger or acquisition. At the annual shareholder's meeting, would people be inclined to say "the incumbent board should get us out of this mess?" or would you try and ditch the CEO and the rest who stuffed it up?

A lot of the problem is that Bush and, for his share, Howard, are as much focused on making themselves look good as worrying about the situation and how to resolve it. Bush's "surge" is an attempt to make it look like things are on the improve, so that he can get out or leave office while the Coalition is on the front foot. And when it all turns to crap thereafter, he can blame the next mob. In the way that conservatives still maintain they could have won in Vietnam (oops there's that word again) after the Tet offensive, if only those bleeding heart lefties hadn't thought it was all over.

Howard is staying the course - with our limited involvement - because he can't back out after his "cut and run" and "stay till the job is done" (which is what, or when?) statements. If he gets re-elected he's expected to find a way to get out in February, when it's a safe political thing to do, post-election.

11:28:47 AM
On 28/07/2007 Sabu wrote:
>See my point yet?

All I see is you have a nieve Murdock implant view of the situation.
So you advocate staying and continuing to exclude the majority of people from the parlimentary process?

11:28:52 AM
On 27/07/2007 bluey wrote:
>hey guys, the ombudsman is my mum, you could be a little kinder......

Mummmm, can you explain this to me....??

6:44:48 PM
Yeah, pretty bad when the charities seem to be trying to screw people over. just doesnt ad up....

on the Iraq front, have always wondered how things would pan out if we all pulled out and put in a UN sanctioned peace keeping force. maybe that would stop pissing the iraqi's off.

and what about afghanistan. why are we not stirring up sh!t about that. i dont understand what is going on there but there was the thought that the US went in there so they could take it over and put a gas pipline from up north to the ocean. the taliban is a more legit 'enemy'?

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There are 240 messages in this topic.


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