Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Author

Removing bolts to create trad paradise


garbie

10-May-2007
9:08:56 PM

On 10/05/2007 nmonteith wrote:
>Unfortunately a poll would be voted on by climbers who have never been
>to the place, and probably never
>will. Don't underestimate the level of closet-nsw sport climbers on these
>fourms. :-)

If you dont like any sort of democracy, why raise the issue in the first place? If you just want crusty beard stroker locals' opinions, stick a clipboard up at the crag.... ;)

kieranl

10-May-2007
9:42:48 PM

Garbie,
the sad truth is that you can't even rely on crusty beard-strokers these days. I would classify as one of them (albeit clean-shaven since 1983) but am among the handful of climbers who have placed bolts on abseil at Rosea (2 bolts, 1 peg 1986).
I think that the average climber would have a better experience of Rosea if a few existing climbs had rap stations installed at 40m. To mention a couple: Meshach 16+ and Ma Cherie 14ish have fantastic first pitches but the finishing pitches are dirty and vegetated. It's hard to make a case for repeating these climbs in their current condition and, environmentally the top pitches should be left alone.
I don't like this proposal because it is too dogmatic. Yes, respect Rosea and don't slam in bolts everywhere but please allow space for the essence of of some of these old climbs to live. That's a bit wifty-wafty but I hope you get what I mean.

spicelab

10-May-2007
9:43:47 PM

On 10/05/2007 garbie wrote:
>If you dont like any sort of democracy, why raise the issue in the first
>place? If you just want crusty beard stroker locals' opinions, stick a
>clipboard up at the crag.... ;)

Yeah because there's just soooooo many of them nowadays. It's great how those who know they hold the majority view claim anyone from outside of their camp is a threat to democracy.

kieranl

10-May-2007
9:52:08 PM

Oh, and for trad under grade 20 you should do Renate 18. Put up by Dewhirst and Zielke (as are Meshach,Ma Cherie, Last Rites). Every pitch is full-bore.


nmonteith

11-May-2007
9:07:54 AM

On 10/05/2007 garbie wrote:
>If you dont like any sort of democracy, why raise the issue in the first
>place? If you just want crusty beard stroker locals' opinions, stick a
>clipboard up at the crag.... ;)

An online poll is like allowing the world to vote on the president of Iran. The results wouldn't reflect the
actual needs of the people who have to live with the situation.


dougal

11-May-2007
9:45:54 AM

Ideas then - it's your can of worms. I imagine this discussion has been around other forums (not just web) already.

Ronny

11-May-2007
1:22:28 PM

On 10/05/2007 kieranl wrote:

>I think that the average climber would have a better experience of Rosea
>if a few existing climbs had rap stations installed at 40m. To mention
>a couple: Meshach 16+ and Ma Cherie 14ish have fantastic first pitches
>but the finishing pitches are dirty and vegetated. It's hard to make a
>case for repeating these climbs in their current condition and, environmentally
>the top pitches should be left alone.

Just a thought - but what are people's veiws about putting in such rap stations, but not with bolts. Maybe a couple of wires, some braded cable or chain, and a couple of maillons? Wouldn't be able to be done just anywhere - but could easily be left at (or near) the end of the first pitches or routes like this, and people can rap.

Not that I'm really suggesting going and doing this - but how do people feel about it? No holes necessary. Can be replaced easily. Can be removed easily. Prob wouldn't cost any more than bolts...
Would definitely change the nature of these routes though (maybe for the better?)


tnd

11-May-2007
2:45:46 PM

On 11/05/2007 Ronny wrote:
>(snip) Can be removed easily.

And will be...by thieves.

Ronny

11-May-2007
10:08:40 PM

Yeah sure but so can hangers etc. If the person wants to rap off, they have to leave it behind. If they want to climb 3 pitches of choss so they can souvenir some old wires then they can have them I reckon.

Also, makes people a bit more responsible for their decision to rap off after the first pitch - if you really want to and someone's swiped the anchor you'll have to leave gear...

MR. REDZONE

13-May-2007
7:54:38 AM

There doesnt seem to be any shortage of unclimbed choss in the grampians??

instead of defacing an established climbing area, why don't the trad nazi's go and find some top secret trad choss crag that they could call their own.

Their, they could ban ringbolts, pitons (laughable...do they still retail these in victoria?..there much more reliable than ringbolts.) sports climbers, carrot bolts, walk ins of less than one hour, rap rings, climbing shoes, chalk and those pesky international visitors....what do euro's know about climbing...right?. After all they only invented the sport. I'm sure the swiss and the frenchies in particular would think it a great idea to start tearing out ringbolts from a rockclimbing area. (I wouldn't try this ethic out at Ceuse though...it might get you deported) anyhow I digress.

If you want an elite purist trad venue then why dont you lazy buggers go and FIND ONE instead of vandalising an established one???. I was marveled at the number of inaccessible far off piles of rock in the gramps. Just jump in the Hilux, dust off the low range gear, fill the fridge full of beer, grab the air rifle and UR trad rack and go trekking!.

As for rap anchors at the top of routes...tsssss. with rap offs, you are limiting cliff top erosion, minimising the risk of falling debris and you are limiting damage to the vegetation because you dont have to bash your way through the bush via your chosen point of descent to get back down. That all sounds too environmental and safety freindly to me!. lets not have any rap anchors...what a silly idea rap anchors are.

disrespecting the 1st ascentionists as being null and void because they used one of the listed items:
-ringbolt
-piton (its been so long since i typed that word)
-carrot

is honestly realy cheap and disrespectful. If your too much of a purist to clip a bolt carrot or piton (giggling uncontrolably at that word now) then suck it up, be a man and just run it out princesses.
why dont we make all the 1st ascets that were done using chalk or climbing shoes null and void as well...then we could get lots more 1st ascents to our name!.

WOw, I suddenly feel very Austin Powers with all these 1960's ideas

yeeaaaahhhh baby!

Now, with this new pure mega trad nature and adventure SUPACRAG, I have proposed you could have your own place where you can dress up as pirates!, strap on your dunlop volleys and go tearing up choss mounds in the name of adventure. you might even find some TREASURE...aaahhhrrrrr haaarrrrrghh!!. judging by feedback from the thread, it would be population 2. hey at least you have someone to belay you. You could rest in the knowledge that your newly established PURE routes would never ever be repeated by ANYONE!!, and that you could brag endlessly on forums about how your ethics are pure and that your poo smells like roses, just to fill in the weekday.

tastybigmac

13-May-2007
10:41:32 AM

if you get to dress up as a pirate, that is different. chop all the bolts! I also think that first ascents done in
lycra were cheating too. knee high socks and woollen vests only please!


rodw

13-May-2007
8:44:02 PM

Dressing up in pirate gear is a great idea, not only would you be restoring some purity to the current ethics of Australian climbing...you'll also be doing your bit re global warming.......forget carbon emissions...its all about the lack of pirates in the world....Yarrrrrrr

mpage

13-May-2007
9:23:12 PM

I think you need a new secret crag rod ... too much time on your hands know that Mt K is finished off.

simey

13-May-2007
10:48:37 PM

Mr Redzone... you are a c--khead.

MR. REDZONE

14-May-2007
7:38:55 AM

ah, smiley simey,

the unflapable Simon Mentz.

we all know your background dude. before you started climbing, you had an infamous life as I pirate didn't you?
all my cynicism about Pirates, treasure and pillaging has obviously got you hot under the collarrrrrrr.

who is this???:
"My first day of climbing was at Mt Arapiles with a friend (Ben Galbraith), just after we turned 18 and got car licences. We had read about Mt Arapiles and decided to drive up and teach ourselves. We had two short pieces of old sailing rope, a harness and a set of jumars (?!!). Our first attempt at climbing was Minimus (14) where we anchored the rope to the top of the cliff and devised a strange climbing/jumaring system."

Two old pieces of sailing rope hey?
noooice buddy. I hope you didnt have to rape and pillage any old grandma's for that.

It must have been dissapointing to get the dog on old minimus. Lucky you had that trusty SAILING ROPE ME HARRTIEEEEE!!!!. I'm taking it that D-minor offered less resistance??.....hey its pretty stout for a grade 9. nothing to be ashamed of.

any port in a storm...right sailor?

I'm hoping your vocabulary in your next post has improved along with your style and ethics of climbing since your introductory debacle into climbing simey simey??

simey

14-May-2007
9:36:12 AM

Mr Redzone... your posts are getting better. Probably because your rambling spew is more suited to talking about pirate nonsense than it is about the intricacies of Rosea.

One Day Hero

14-May-2007
10:17:34 AM

On 11/05/2007 Ronny wrote:

>Just a thought - but what are people's veiws about putting in such rap
>stations, but not with bolts. Maybe a couple of wires, some braded cable
>or chain, and a couple of maillons? Wouldn't be able to be done just anywhere
>- but could easily be left at (or near) the end of the first pitches or
>routes like this, and people can rap.

Now this is a good idea! Nice lateral thinking Ronny, seriously, I'm into this!

Don't go with fixed wires though, cause they quickly turn into rusty fixed mank.

Instead, how about some custom, stainless, chocklike things with chains or rings welded on? They would be removable, but useless as climbing gear so less likely to be ripped off. And, as a bonus, it would have that 'dodgy, not quite right, colonial feel which makes visiting euros nervous.

I vote we ask Claw to design the things!

Ronny

14-May-2007
10:39:07 AM

>Instead, how about some custom, stainless, chocklike things with chains
>or rings welded on? They would be removable, but useless as climbing gear
>so less likely to be ripped off. And, as a bonus, it would have that 'dodgy,
>not quite right, colonial feel which makes visiting euros nervous.

We could do things like wedge saucepans with welded rings attached into off-widths...

but then some tightass climber will prob still try to rip it off to make a quick cup of tea or something

simey

14-May-2007
10:40:38 AM

On 14/05/2007 One Day Hero wrote:
>Instead, how about some custom, stainless, chocklike things with chains or rings welded on? They would be removable, but useless as climbing gear so less likely to be ripped off. And, as a bonus, it would have that 'dodgy, not quite right, colonial feel which makes visiting euros nervous.

>I vote we ask Claw to design the things!

I like it.


Macciza

14-May-2007
11:10:29 AM

High All
I have a couple of options I have experimented with as I have swaging gear to about 4mm,
StainlessWireRope SWR with swaged eyelet swaged to stainless bolt/piton - hammered or glued
SWR with swaged eyelet swaged to filed stainless machine nut - placed in crack
I guess SWR threads or Abalakovs would be possible also . .

There are 203 messages in this topic.