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24-Apr-2007 2:59:43 PM
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This whole bolting debate wouldn't be happening if we didn't have electric drills ...
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24-Apr-2007 3:01:53 PM
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But we do
......
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24-Apr-2007 3:15:34 PM
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i dunno know steve. I've placed about 200 or so hand drilled bolts in my time.
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24-Apr-2007 3:25:32 PM
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On 24/04/2007 gfdonc wrote:
>This whole bolting debate wouldn't be happening if we didn't have electric
>drills ...
Then we'd have to use petrol drills.
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24-Apr-2007 3:33:27 PM
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Hmmm Ryobi...
talking of which, are there many about anymore?
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24-Apr-2007 3:44:55 PM
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On 24/04/2007 dalai wrote:
>Hmmm Ryobi...
>talking of which, are there many about anymore?
Hmm... dynosaur drills, have to check in a museum, they might have a ryobisaurus.
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24-Apr-2007 4:01:25 PM
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I know of one still in action, Mr Fairbairn used it to bolt up a few routes at Bungonia I do believe.
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24-Apr-2007 4:08:22 PM
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On 24/04/2007 nmonteith wrote:
>ODH, i wasn't for or against rap stations at the Aussie places you listed,
>i meerly wanted to know if there
>was anywhere in Australia with anti-bolting as strict as English grit.
>(ie no bolts - ever).
I believe that the overwhelming majority of climbers in the gritstone area are very unified in this respect. This real sense of unity, the fact that it's a fairly limited and clearly-defined area with a strongly-held tradition in this regard all have probably allowed the area to remain bolt-free. I also suspect the fact that there aren't even any rap bolts there is probably at least in part due to the fact that the gritstone routes are so short. Would it be the same case if the routes were 100 + metres high? I'm not sure, but I suspect not.
I don't know if there is anywhere in Oz with the sort of tradition that there is at the gritstone edges. (Apart from anything, our cliffs aren't steeped in history the way grit is. I'm not sure, but haven't bolts been stuck in the rock at Arapiles since very early on?) Even a crag I visited in Queensland a couple of years ago with Robert Staszewski, a staunch traditionalist if ever I met one, had at least one route with a bolt placed on it. Mind you, it was a very necky route, placed by one very necky climber (not Squeak, btw) quite a few years ago. The point is, even at this small crag, which is situated on an approach ridge to a larger set of cliffs, locals have seen fit to bolt when and where they wanted to do so.
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24-Apr-2007 4:12:33 PM
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What i found amusing was the numerous bolts and pins in the limestone and grit quarry routes only a few
kilometres away from the 'no-bolt' zones of the English grit.
Arapiese did have botls right from the start (mostly used as aid pieces). These are still in place on routes
such as ThunderCrack, Karma Sutra ect...
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24-Apr-2007 4:15:09 PM
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On 24/04/2007 nmonteith wrote:
>What i found amusing was the numerous bolts and pins in the limestone and
>grit quarry routes only a few
>kilometres away from the 'no-bolt' zones of the English grit.
It's hard to say no to bolting when the ENTIRE CRAG is one big chipping action.
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24-Apr-2007 10:08:22 PM
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Aussie Ethic - Bash-In Carrot 'She'll be right, mate" It's cheap and it works - No worries . . Now just
bloody climb the thing, have a go ya mug, give it ya best shot & take the fall, it ain't going nowhere . .
If in doubt - run it out, sandbag ya mates, rap in for coffee, jug out for beers, share the last joint . . .
Climb with the least amount of fixed pro, enjoy the fear, step up or piss off and stop ya whinging , , ,
Though Euro-American-over-pleasure-protected-nancy-bloody-boy-stainless-double-ring-sport-faggotry
seems to be taking a suprising hold in the modern gym-bred-'ooh, I climb blacks'-weakened-worrier . . .
Bring back the 'Real Aussie' climbing - When Henry Barber came here came here 30 years ago he was
damn impressed with the Antipodean style and gungho 'can do' approach, cut of as we were from the
mainstream of Euro-American climbing we just made it up as we went along - now everyone wants beta
in one form or another and the focus is on safety and numbers or fun not excitement and joy
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24-Apr-2007 10:50:09 PM
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On 24/04/2007 Macciza wrote:
>
>Bring back the 'Real Aussie' climbing - When Henry Barber came here came
>here 30 years ago he was
>damn impressed with the Antipodean style and gungho 'can do' approach,
Was he really? Or was he just being polite (then and now)? It'd be a bit hard for him to turn up and say "you'all are a bunch of softies ... now lead me to your prized projects so's I can style them".
And besides, it was the Antipodean "can't do" situation, and his speedy remedies to this issue, that led to his lasting fame!
:-)
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24-Apr-2007 11:46:27 PM
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On 24/04/2007 Macciza wrote:
> or piss off and stop ya whinging , , ,
Does the good Dr need a dose of his own medicine?
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24-Apr-2007 11:50:49 PM
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>Was he really?
Yes I'm serious - There is an interview he did recently on Podclimber where he reckons the Aussie
attitude made him 'step up' and that was half of why he blitzed it here applying our mindset to his skill
and fitness.
"The real breakaway trip was Australia in 75 . . . Ray Lassman, Norm Booth, John Smart, they were
swinging on ropes, and fallin' off roofs, and takin' 30ft pendulums . . and I thought these guys are really
throwin' themselves at it . . . So I realised at that time. . I started to change my style . . . I had to change
something and that happened in Australia . . . I forced myself to stay on . . I became I lot more bold, . .
because I had a different concept of what was comfortable" Henry Barber PodClimber 11/12/06
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25-Apr-2007 12:08:23 AM
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Well those are nice things to say .. and I'd never disrespect the legendary Hot Henry.
At the same time, I'd suggest that his "stepping up" here was possibly because he was a big fish in a small pond. In the US he was one of the elite, here he was the elite. He had the chance to do things that everyone else had tried and couldn't do. All eyes were on him. No wonder he "forced himself to stay on".
And it'd be a surprising thing if climbers weren't being bold elsewhere. Reading John Long's accounts of his formative years in Yosemite and J Tree - Long is a bit of a yarn spinner, but still, there was a lot of extremely sharp end climbing, according to him.
To shift back to your earlier post, referring to how climbers want to play it safe these days... I suggest that's because there are a hell of a lot more climbers now then, say, in the 70s. Most of us aren't envelope pushing bad boys with a belief in our own immortality. A lot of us are 40-something weekend warriors with creaking backs, bung knees, and a desire to have a bit of adventure but still get home in one piece on Sunday night!
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25-Apr-2007 12:33:37 AM
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All I can suggest is that you listen to his interview at www.podclimber.com first
I don't think it's just the numbers - it's also mentality from the gym, not from experience
And I know about the creaking back - I just still kinda feel 20-ish and like it
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25-Apr-2007 10:48:41 AM
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On 25/04/2007 Macciza wrote:
>All I can suggest is that you listen to his interview at www.podclimber.com
Righto I'll give it a listen. I heard a podcast from 'Enry before but maybe not this one.
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25-Apr-2007 10:59:06 AM
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His Aussie references are at about the 8 minute mark - abd the whole interview is awesome.
Happy Podding
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26-Apr-2007 8:55:18 AM
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On 24/04/2007 Macciza wrote:
>...
>Though Euro-American-over-pleasure-protected-nancy-bloody-boy-stainless-double-ring-sport
>faggotry
>seems to be taking a suprising hold in the modern gym-bred-'ooh, I climb
>blacks'-weakened-worrier . . .
>
>Bring back the 'Real Aussie' climbing - When Henry Barber came here came
>here 30 years ago he was
>damn impressed with the Antipodean style and gungho 'can do' approach,
>cut of as we were from the
>mainstream of Euro-American climbing we just made it up as we went along
>- now everyone wants beta
>in one form or another and the focus is on safety and numbers or fun not
> excitement and joy
This is cultural cringing of the worst order. Next thing you'll be telling us that Aussie climbers are "the best in the Southern Hemisphere". Jeez Macca, sounds like you'd have us back in the 50's eating white bread sandwiches, drinking nice cups of tea and saluting the British flag!
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26-Apr-2007 9:11:24 AM
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Right, You didn't listen to the interview either . . .
Not that mine actually is - but I would take my cultural cringe over your 'Climbing Cringe' anyday . . .
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