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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 2 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 83
Author
Australian Ethics

Vertigo
16-Apr-2007
11:57:43 PM
Cheers for updating and answering.I was just contemplating=this type of debate (ethics) is one of the hardest to discuss duetohe strong views we have.it seems to depend mostly on where we start climbing at and the influence of those who tought or helped us in the begining.to me all climbing is great climbing ,and trad i s a personal favourite,out here (warrumbungels) i suppose its easy to have a one eyed view that no bolts in trad areas is the done thing.however its also hard to see a great line with no pro and know that it has the potensial to be a great line,but without bolts it will never be.i suppose you just except that and as i said before ,if you want to clip bolts you visit a sport area.
Cheers Heath

IdratherbeclimbingM9
17-Apr-2007
10:43:49 AM
On 16/04/2007 n00bpwn3r wrote:
>If, for example, you go to a crag and repeat a fully bolted route but
>place runners making some or all the bolts redundant, should the said bolt/s
>be chopped?
Mousey has pretty well said it already.
It is about the climbing is it not? (ie bold vs whatever, etc). Personally I can't for the life of me think why people would bolt natural gear lines. It is kind of like driving your car down the highway and towing a second car 'just in case you need it' (to my mind); and as an aside ... the Climbing Festival debate on 'putting up routes for others' dealt quite nicely with this similar issue.

>I believe they should and we should get back to our own ethics instead
>of following other countries weak example.
Generally yes. Though there is much grey area for debate here!

tnd
17-Apr-2007
11:58:44 AM
On 16/04/2007 mousey wrote:
>if the bolts shouldnt have been put there in the first place (whether
>due to local ethic or the availability of other gear) then rip the f---ers
>out

You might not see a need for the bolt, but the FA and others did! Put your own routes up in the style that you want. Leave other people's routes alone or you could well find someone tearing you a new arsehole.
Fish Boy
17-Apr-2007
12:00:45 PM
Noob, read some stuff about climbing and you might get an insight into who Kieran L is!

Eduardo Slabofvic
17-Apr-2007
12:09:25 PM
On 17/04/2007 Fish Boy wrote:
>Noob, read some stuff about climbing and you might get an insight into
>who Kieran L is!

Or at least who he wants us to believe he is.

n00bpwn3r
17-Apr-2007
12:26:10 PM
On 17/04/2007 Fish Boy wrote:
>Noob, read some stuff about climbing and you might get an insight into
>who Kieran L is!

How is this going to help me recognize who he is if he walks past me at the crag.

Why would this make his opinion more relevant than mine?
cragrat
17-Apr-2007
12:48:13 PM
I have retro bolted quite a few of my own mixed pro routes.

Often they have had one, not necessarily good, bit of gear in a predominantly bolted route that was often a beta placement that I knew about from cleaning and bolting. Good routes not getting climbed and now popular.

The example mentioned about removing bolts is that old British ethic where they are trying to protect their very bolt free ethos. It usually meant that if you could climb well above the grade of the route with the offending item you would chop it thereby rendering it sanitised to those who had that safety margin - not those actually climbing that grade. Often the problem when Grade 25 climbers put up sub 20 routes for example.

Sabu
17-Apr-2007
12:48:47 PM
On 17/04/2007 n00bpwn3r wrote:
>On 17/04/2007 Fish Boy wrote:
>>Noob, read some stuff about climbing and you might get an insight into
>>who Kieran L is!
>
>How is this going to help me recognize who he is if he walks past me at
>the crag.
he wears a wide brimmed hat sometimes! does that help?!

>Why would this make his opinion more relevant than mine?
i don't know him personally but i can safely assume he is far more involved within the outdoor community and developement.
One Day Hero
17-Apr-2007
5:36:20 PM
Everything which can be said about bolting/retrobolting/retrochopping has been said before (probably 20 years ago and expressed more eloquently than you will manage today!)

Therefore; when dealing with this months major boltwar, the only worthwhile way to express your opinion is to fill the gaps in this handy boltwar form

"Nah, I reckon we should do _____, not _____ like _____ said 'cause he/she is a total _____!!!"

BigMike
17-Apr-2007
5:44:38 PM
On 16/04/2007 n00bpwn3r wrote:

>I believe they should and we should get back to our own ethics instead
>of following other countries weak example.
>

There's a presumption to this topic that "Australian Ethics" could be made uniform.

Other countries don't have uniform ethics. Bolting is fine in parts of Britain but could prove lethal (for the bolter) in, say, gritstone areas.

Same in the US.

Would it be fair to say that ethical considerations regarding bolting are crag-dependent?

And if so, isn't that what we've got here?

nmonteith
17-Apr-2007
5:50:17 PM
Can anyone name any other climbing areas in Australia that remain bolt free? I like the idea that there
could be at least one shining example of a place where climbers havn't had to resort to drilling and
hammering.

I would have loved for Mt Rosea to be a Victorian example, but unfortunately there are a scattering of
worthless pesky bolts at this crag amoungst hundreds of metres of quality trad. :-(

Vertigo
17-Apr-2007
6:01:07 PM
Well the warrumbungels is ,but i know thats obvious Neil.It has a bolted line on a Climb but that spire is not in the park,and are carrots.The only other bolting are rap stations on the spires that there is no other way off. And i think ,but am not 100% certain that these are NOT maintained by the park.

nmonteith
17-Apr-2007
6:17:49 PM
That doesn't count Vertigo. Bolted rap anchors are still bolts. I want to know about places with ethics as
strict at English Grit.

HM33
17-Apr-2007
6:50:36 PM
isn;t there some isolated crag in QLD. Goanna point or something?
kieranl
17-Apr-2007
8:04:39 PM
On 17/04/2007 nmonteith wrote:
>Can anyone name any other climbing areas in Australia that remain bolt
>free?
The Fortress is pretty close. I think there are some belay bolts under the Passport roof though (not placed during the first ascent). Perhaps they could go. If you remember we had a vigorous discussion a couple of years back about whether the Passport block needed an bolted abseil descent, a discussion quickly curtailed by Nick McKinnon promising to chop it if it was placed. It would be fitting to make the Fortress massif bolt-free. I am sure that there is potential for great bolted climbs in the area (the wall left of Black Knight comes to mind) but perhaps these could be foregone.


nmonteith
17-Apr-2007
8:26:36 PM
On 17/04/2007 kieranl wrote:
>On 17/04/2007 nmonteith wrote:
>>Can anyone name any other climbing areas in Australia that remain bolt
>>free?
>The Fortress is pretty close.

Unfortuantly ANOTHER Nick (Hanc--k) went and bolted a two pitch route up there a few years ago, thus
ruining the chance of a bolt free area.
kieranl
17-Apr-2007
8:27:28 PM
On 16/04/2007 n00bpwn3r wrote:
>Point 1:Please read both posts again slowly and carefully, I'll think you'll
>find that at no time did I contradict myself. If you however would like
>to continue being condescending in the tone of your posts then I am more
>than happy to belittle you in a similar fashion.
Sorry, I have read your posts several times both before and after my posting and it still looks the same to me. The tenor of this response doesn't improve on my initial impression. I wasn't being condescending, I was mightily p***ed off by what came across as postings by a smart-aleck. Your other responses to posts in this thread just confirm that. Quite a pity, I was hoping I had just misread things and you might have something serious to say.

>Point 2:kieranl, how would I know you, if I knew your name or not. I could
>or may have walked past you at the crag, so there for you are just as anonymous
>to me as I to you.
>
>I don't know you there for your post is worthless is a lame argument,
>surely a relevant post is just that.
>
>If you look at my profile you'll see my name. You would have to be a Net
>n00b to supply a ISP generated email address on a public forum, as anybody
>can create an account and farm personal details. I do believe this site
>has been hacked before and personal details stolen. As the name implies
>n00bpwn3r, not n00b.
>
The rest of this response is so arrogant and condescending as to defy belief.
I thought I'd checked your profile for identity but may have slipped up there.

Eduardo has a point that my identity says who I purport to be, not necessarily who I am and the same applies to everyone on this site. Strangely enough it's a trust thing and it's basically Victorian climbing with a few interlopers like Philbox, Mousey and Onsight and ultimately everyone is linked. For instance, I've never met Sabu but he knows tlockwood who knows me and I gather there are others on Chockstone who know you.

Whatever

dalai
17-Apr-2007
8:38:25 PM
On 17/04/2007 nmonteith wrote:
>I want to know about places with ethics as strict at English Grit.

Didn't Keiren mention Victoria ranges?

*Note - trying to add brevity amoungst the usual aggro when the B word pops up*

We all know each other really via the 6 degrees of separation... so play nice people!


skink
17-Apr-2007
9:02:14 PM
On 17/04/2007 kieranl wrote:
>I thought I'd checked your profile for identity but may have slipped up
>there.

You didn't slip up dude, Matty/n00b just edited his profile to add the rest of his name. He's coming around to the fact that posting anonymously doesn't hold much water, especially if you want to start getting all controversial.

Maybe he'll eventually come around to the fact that smartarse arrogance doesn't work too well in a faceless environment either...

But back to the matter at hand...

My opinion:
Let your conscience be your guide - bolting a face route in amongst a sea of cracks just seems lame and bad style.
dalai
17-Apr-2007
9:05:54 PM
On 17/04/2007 andesite wrote:

>My opinion:
>Let your conscience be your guide - bolting a face route in amongst a
>sea of cracks just seems lame and bad style.
>

Others may view a world of possible classic faces and aretes? Think about the number of classic arete and face routes at Frog which exist because of the bolt protection...

 Page 2 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 83
There are 83 messages in this topic.

 

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